Consequences of Brexit [part 7] Read first post before posting

[Voice of reason 0]

4 minutes ago, L00b said:

Ireland is long and well advanced in its border preparations. But there’s no political gain to be had for Varadkar, at home or abroad, from advertising the fact.

 

The U.K. has no choice but to put borders up, in Ireland and everywhere else, if it hopes to trade on WTO terms with anyone at any stage.

Yes we have a choice to erect a border or not. The WTO does not have any rules on that. It is up to Ireland and the UK to decide how to police import / export trade and tariffs, and to ensure if tariffs, IF they exist, are collected.

[Magilla 510]

53 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

I know you love bad news stories, but the first line of the article reads

"The SADC (Sony Digital Audio Disc Corporation) site in Enfield looks to be the latest victim of streaming growth"

Bad news for the people who work there, sorry to have spoiled your enjoyment of the news.

Doesn't explain why it's only the UK plant closing first

38 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

Yes we have a choice to erect a border or not. The WTO does not have any rules on that. It is up to Ireland and the UK to decide how to police import / export trade and tariffs, and to ensure if tariffs, IF they exist, are collected.

Unless that system can prevent locals loading a van up with goods and driving them over the border illegally, then border checks will be required.

 

The technological solution proposed won't do that, it'll only work for people who are honest.

[Voice of reason 0]

1 minute ago, Magilla said:

Doesn't explain why it's only the UK plant closing first

Can you explain specifically why they'd do that then? Especially how brexit would close a British warehouse distributing CDs in Britain. Also, why the link you posted cited the reason being streaming. I'm interested in the detail of the reason.

[L00b 441]

52 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

Yes we have a choice to erect a border or not. The WTO does not have any rules on that. It is up to Ireland and the UK to decide how to police import / export trade and tariffs, and to ensure if tariffs, IF they exist, are collected.

Start from here: Ireland is an EU member state and the EU is a WTO member state, with phonebooks’ worth of tariffs and quotas agreed with 3rd party countries (-like the U.K. would be after no deal, only without the agreed tariffs and quotas).

 

That is why, so long as Ireland is an EU member state, it’s never going to be “Ireland and the U.K. decide” about the border and tariffs.

 

Now if the U.K. doesn’t put a border up in Ireland, under the WTO MFN principles it cannot put a border up anywhere else.

 

That is why I referred to the U.K. putting a border up if it wants to trade (viably-ish)  on WTO terms: without borders, ie in the absence of (U.K.) tariffs, U.K. manufacturing and agrifood sectors wouldn’t last 2 years in that scenario; the BRICs and the US would simply out-compete  every last U.K. actor out of business and their employees out of jobs quasi-overnight, through higher productivity and lower costs (from which the EU currently shields those U.K. actors at least partially: that’s what tariffs are for, and their gradual reduction down to FTA level is there to incentivise productivity gains in the EU).

Edited June 19, 2019 by L00b

[Magilla 510]

6 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

Can you explain specifically why they'd do that then? Especially how brexit would close a British warehouse distributing CDs in Britain.

What makes you think they only distribute in Britain?

 

Even if they do, which isn't clear from the article, as a Japanese company the tax changes being bandied about for post Brexit  UK would mean they might have to pay tax in Japan as-well. The same reason Panasonic recently left the UK for Holland.

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Magilla

[Voice of reason 0]

15 minutes ago, Magilla said:

What makes you think they only distribute in Britain?

 

Even if they do, which isn't clear from the article, as a Japanese company the tax changes being bandied about for post Brexit  UK would mean they might have to pay tax in Japan as-well. The same reason Panasonic recently left the UK for Holland.

 

They've closed a distribution centre, not a headquarters. So, you'll have to explain again why it's got anything to do with brexit, when your own link told us it was about streaming. Or you could do the unthinkable and admit it's just a regrettable closure for other reasons.

20 minutes ago, L00b said:

Start from here: Ireland is an EU member state and the EU is a WTO member state, with phonebooks’ worth of tariffs and quotas agreed with 3rd party countries (-like the U.K. would be after no deal, only without the agreed tariffs and quotas).

 

That is why, so long as Ireland is an EU member state, it’s never going to be “Ireland and the U.K. decide” about the border and tariffs.

 

Now if the U.K. doesn’t put a border up in Ireland, under the WTO MFN principles it cannot put a border up anywhere else.

 

That is why I referred to the U.K. putting a border up if it wants to trade (viably-ish)  on WTO terms: without borders, ie in the absence of (U.K.) tariffs, U.K. manufacturing and agrifood sectors wouldn’t last 2 years in that scenario; the BRICs and the US would simply out-compete  every last U.K. actor out of business and their employees out of jobs quasi-overnight, through higher productivity and lower costs (from which the EU currently shields those U.K. actors at least partially: that’s what tariffs are for, and their gradual reduction down to FTA level is there to incentivise productivity gains in the EU).

You'll have to speak to the WTO about it then

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/wto-says-its-rules-would-not-force-eu-or-uk-to-erect-hard-irish-border-1.3710136

[Magilla 510]

 

Quote

They've closed a distribution centre, not a headquarters.

Sony to move Europe headquarters to avoid Brexit disruption

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46968720

 

They're doing both.

 

Quote

 

So, you'll have to explain again why it's got anything to do with brexit, when your own link told us it was about streaming. Or you could do the unthinkable and admit it's just a regrettable closure for other reasons.

Just like Honda had nothing to do with Brexit... unless the person speaking was an expert on the car industry or one who understands how Japanese companies operate.. in which case it was a big factor

 

If you can convince yourself, fine... nothing to do with you... right? The notion that Brexit will be of no consequence whatsoever is fanciful (IMHO).

 

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Magilla

[Voice of reason 0]

1 minute ago, Magilla said:

 

Just like Honda had nothing to do with Brexit... unless the person speaking was an expert on the car industry or one who understands how Japanese companies operate.. in which case it was a big factor

 

If you can convince yourself, fine... nothing to do with you... right? The notion that Brexit will be of no consequence whatsoever is fanciful (IMHO).

 

 

So , can you explain why THIS closure, that you posted about is to do with brexit?

[Magilla 510]

1 minute ago, Voice of reason said:

So , can you explain why THIS closure, that you posted about is to do with brexit?

If one has to be closed, Brexit makes the UK operation the most obvious choice 

 

[Cyclone 10]

17 minutes ago, Voice of reason said:

So , can you explain why THIS closure, that you posted about is to do with brexit?

The fact that distributing from the UK to the rest of Europe becomes restricted, no longer frictionless.  So a european distribution centre makes more sense.

[Voice of reason 0]

58 minutes ago, Magilla said:

If one has to be closed, Brexit makes the UK operation the most obvious choice 

 

why? They have other distribution centres in the eu. Explain properly. You are supposed to be able to form rational, educated responses. I can take more than a one-liner.

44 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

The fact that distributing from the UK to the rest of Europe becomes restricted, no longer frictionless.  So a european distribution centre makes more sense.

Doesn't make logical sense. In fact quite the opposite.

They have other distribution centres in the EU mainland. They are being kept open, as magilla happily informed us about.

If seamless trade is an issue, you'd have a Uk distribution centre to buffer the delays to uk customers. The eu centres handle eu trade.

'Perhaps' , it's actually to do with streaming, like the first line of the article said.

Or do you disagree, and think CDs and DVDs are all the rage still, and it is brexit based, despite the article not mentioning it?

Edited June 19, 2019 by Voice of reason

[L00b 441]

1 hour ago, Voice of reason said:

You'll have to speak to the WTO about it then

 

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/wto-says-its-rules-would-not-force-eu-or-uk-to-erect-hard-irish-border-1.3710136

You completely missed my points and failed to read your own link, which confirms them:

 

In circumstances where duties or customs are not enforced, a major beef producer such as the US or Argentina could lodge a complaint if the UK decided to import Irish beef duty free to avoid a customs border.

I don’t need to speak to the WTO, because I understand basic principles of international trade -and the role of borders therein- just fine.

 

Do you?