Consequences of Brexit [part 7] Read first post before posting

[bendix 10]

59 minutes ago, woodview said:

So, what's the solution? You are fixed on only Remaining, no other option. You might have noticed, a few million people disagreed. It has been round the houses for 3 years. A a 'my way or the highway' approach hasn't worked for anybody in that time. Hopefully Parliament may be more pragmatic and find a path that can satisfy enough people.

What do you mean what's the solution?  You can't ask Remainers to come up with ideas for a disastrous scenario you Leavers voted for.

 

At what point will Leave voters, ever more angry at something they created, accept that EVERY Leave option leaves us worse off than before

[ez8004 10]

11 hours ago, Jeddo said:

The sleeping giant hasn't been awakened yet, because things have gone it's way so far.

 

As for the law......five words.....Parliamentary process has been hijacked.

 

The law may be changed by instrument on 27th to change the date of Brexit, the 29th does not change until that takes place.

Hang on a minute. Are you really complaining that our Parliament is exercising its sovereignty?

[Car Boot 10]

3 hours ago, nightrider said:

Not true. A pure link is fine, a link with an image of the text in the link may not be fine.

Article 11 of the proposed EU copyright reform/expansion

Also called: “Link Tax”, Snippet Tax, Publishers’ Right, Neighbouring Right, Ancillary Copyright, Leistungsschutzrecht, Canon AEDE

 

"Anyone using snippets of journalistic online content must first get a license from the publisher. This new right for publishers would apply for 20 years after publication.

 

Consequences

Likely to fail: This is an attempt to replicate at an EU level an idea that already failed badly in Germany and Spain – only applied more broadly and longer. 
The German law is likely about to be pronounced invalid in court, while the Spanish one “clearly had a negative impact on visibility and access to information in Spain” (EPRS). Journalists certainly never saw additional remuneration."

 

https://juliareda.eu/eu-copyright-reform/extra-copyright-for-news-sites/

[bendix 10]

One of the joys of the last day or so is seeing the hardline Brexiters call each other traitors and turncoats.  The movement is eating itself.

[woodview 10]

18 minutes ago, bendix said:

What do you mean what's the solution?  You can't ask Remainers to come up with ideas for a disastrous scenario you Leavers voted for.

 

At what point will Leave voters, ever more angry at something they created, accept that EVERY Leave option leaves us worse off than before

I'm not asking you personally to. Our parliamentarians have to find a solution to an issue where a slim majority instructed them to Leave, and slightly less to stay.

It's fine for you personally to flounce off, but those in office have to do the job they are there to do. That will involve coming to a consensus on a way forward that is sympathetic to the needs and concerns as many of the electorate as possible.

Labour had leaving the EU and replacing with Customs Union and Single market in their last manifesto, so the bulk of parliament didn't have remain in the EU at the last election. So between them they can make a proposal.

Edited March 27, 2019 by woodview

[Justin Smith 10]

19 hours ago, woodview said:

I'd like to see these indicative votes carried out on a completely free vote, no whips. We need to get to a true consensus without any of the games that have been played right through.this process. Time for them to step up.

I`d like to see those indicative votes carried out completely without any whimps. By which I mean MPs ignoring the fact :

 

1 - There`s no longer a majority for Brexit in this country

 

and

 

2 - Since almost everything Leave promised / predicted / pledged has failed to come about, their mandate is trashed.

 

[L00b 441]

8 minutes ago, woodview said:

I'm not asking you personally to. Our parliamentarians have to find a solution to an issue where a slim majority instructed them to Leave, and slightly less to stay.

It's fine for you personally to flounce off, but those in office have to do the job they are there to do. That will involve coming to a consensus on a way forwatd that is sympathetic to the needs and concerns as many of the electorate as possible.

Parlementarians don't get instructed to do anything by anyone: Parliament is sovereign.

 

They are perfectly entitled to completely ignore the 2016 referendum result and, strictly speaking, don't "have to find" anything.

 

That most do not ignore the referendum result is a political choice, not a constitutional or legal obligation.

 

But if they proceed to enact Brexit, in the long run they're just as f***** as Theresa May, and most know it well.

Edited March 27, 2019 by L00b

[woodview 10]

1 minute ago, Justin Smith said:

I`d like to see those indicative votes carried out completely without any whimps. By which I mean MPs ignoring the fact :

 

1 - There`s no longer a majority for Brexit in this country

 

and

 

2 - Since almost everything Leave promised / predicted / pledged has failed to come about, their mandate is trashed.

 

The Conservatives and Labour both had Leave as their manifesto position in the election AFTER the referendum. Everyone knows about the lies of 3 years ago that were peddled by both bunches. That debate has been repeated thousands of times. It isn't going to be any different discussion now is it?

There are options in the indicative votes for a spectrum of solutions.

1 minute ago, L00b said:

Parlementarians don't get instructed to do anything by anyone: Parliament is sovereign.

 

They are perfectly entitled to completely ignore the 2016 referendum result and, strictly speaking, don't "have to find" anything.

 

That most do not ignore the referendum result is a political choice, not a constitutional or legal obligation.

 

But if they proceed to enact Brexit, in the long run they're just as f***** as Theresa May, and most know it well.

Legally maybe. But that isn't how the position is viewed by the majority of people. It might be your preferred way now, because you want them to do things your way.

Really you are just continuing the issue that has dogged the whole lot from the beginning.

Also, I know I'm wasting my breathe in here, because it is mostly inhabited by very inflexible people who are hell bent on only accepting one solution - theirs.

[Justin Smith 10]

4 minutes ago, woodview said:

The Conservatives and Labour both had Leave as their manifesto position in the election AFTER the referendum. Everyone knows about the lies of 3 years ago that were peddled by both bunches. That debate has been repeated thousands of times. It isn't going to be any different discussion now is it?

There are options in the indicative votes for a spectrum of solutions.

I find it extremely annoying when I hear Brexiteers coming out with that one, similarly the pontification that "80% of voters at the last GE voted for parties committed to leaving the EU".

The fact is me and almost all my extended family voted Labour, despite the fact none of us want to leave the EU. We couldn`t vote LibDem because that`d have just let the Tories in, though for me it was easy to vote for Angela Smith because she was one of the few MPs who had the balls (not literally) to vote against invoking Article 50.

Edited March 27, 2019 by Justin Smith

[L00b 441]

2 minutes ago, woodview said:

There are options in the indicative votes for a spectrum of solutions.

There's 2 or 3 worthwhile options, but the bulk are still WTF/unicorn territory.

 

And nothing which the MPs might agree to so late in the day, is going to change the existing WA and the need for the UK to sign it if it wants to Brexit at least breakage: it's a time-restricted agreement to govern the relationship over the next couple of years, it's not the FTA (or deal, or...) on which the future, more permanent UK-EU27 relationship will be based.

 

Your MPs are just wasting more time, as they continue to agonise over how to handle the poisoned chalice that is Brexit,

[Car Boot 10]

2 minutes ago, Justin Smith said:

I find it extremely annoying when I hear Brexiteers coming out with that one, similarly 80% of voters at the last GE voted for parties committed to leaving the EU.

The fact is me and almost all my extended family voted Labour, despite the fact none of us want to leave the EU. We couldn`t vote LibDem because that`d have just let the Tories in, though for me it was easy to vote for Angela Smith because she was one of the few MPs who had the balls (not literally) to vote against invoking Article 50. All of the others were idiots, even the Brexiteers, because nobody knew what was going to happe

The Labour party is NOT a Remain party. It has accepted the result of the referendum.

 

Isn't it time Remainers did also?

[woodview 10]

Just now, Justin Smith said:

I find it extremely annoying when I hear Brexiteers coming out with that one, similarly 80% of voters at the last GE voted for parties committed to leaving the EU.

The fact is me and almost all my extended family voted Labour, despite the fact none of us want to leave the EU. We couldn`t vote LibDem because that`d have just let the Tories in, though for me it was easy to vote for Angela Smith because she was one of the few MPs who had the balls (not literally) to vote against invoking Article 50. All of the others were idiots, even the Brexiteers, because nobody knew what was going to happe

The Tories did get in. Lib Dems were the only ones who had the courage of their convictions. I don't agree with them, but I respect their position more than I respect Labours position.

But anyway, you say 80% voted for Leave parties, after the referendum. So, you'd presume they have some motivation to complete their manifesto promise. labours was for a Customs Union / Single Market. That is on the indicative vote list. It might gain some Tory support and be the main option.

2 minutes ago, L00b said:

There's 2 or 3 worthwhile options, but the bulk are still WTF/unicorn territory.

 

And nothing which the MPs might agree to so late in the day, is going to change the existing WA and the need for the UK to sign it if it wants to Brexit at least breakage: it's a time-restricted agreement to govern the relationship over the next couple of years, it's not the FTA (or deal, or...) on which the future, more permanent UK-EU27 relationship will be based.

 

Your MPs are just wasting more time, as they continue to agonise over how to handle the poisoned chalice that is Brexit,

No, some are a permanent CU , EEA etc.

You might think they are wasting their time, but I'd suggest this is what should have been done months / years back. Luckily it isn't your problem.