Political parties disconnect to the electorate

[phil752 10]

Without a doubt every one has seen how the political class has disrespected the electorate. Who would vote for their party or MP again?   Is it time to have a protest vote and give independents a go. Even as a protest it may see a change in the voting system.

[ECCOnoob 1,013]

Surely that will depend on whether a particular "independent" is any good.    Its a bit of a broad statement to assume that they would be any better/worse than the party affiliated MPs or that it is even necesarry to have a "protest vote".

 

Lets remember a basic fact.   Despite what many people wrongly assume, in our system we dont vote for "parties".  We dont even vote for a "Prime Minister".   We simply vote for an MP to represent our respective constituancy.    That is the only thing we have a say into.    That local candidate is what matters. 

 

I did not personally vote for my current constituancy MP (who BTW is now officially an independant).   However, despite my own feelings, they were the majority elected winner in this area and that's who I have to deal with until we get a choice once again.    Simple democracy.

 

There is no broad brush assumptions that can be realistically applied here.    Until election time.   Until the leaflets from our relevant and local MP candidates drop through our letterboxes.   Until people have a chance to study the candidates and their proposals.  Until people are ready to make an informed choice....

 

....who can really give an opinon on such a question.

 

Those who can concern me a great deal.    They are just the type of people who blindly follow a party or blindly follow what their parents and grandparents did.  I have no such loyalty.   I choose on the merits of a candiate presented before me at the time.  Nothing else.   I really wish others would follow suit and we may have a more diverse house overall.

Edited March 11, 2019 by ECCOnoob

[tinfoilhat 11]

48 minutes ago, phil752 said:

Without a doubt every one has seen how the political class has disrespected the electorate. Who would vote for their party or MP again?   Is it time to have a protest vote and give independents a go. Even as a protest it may see a change in the voting system.

It’s because you might not get brexit isn’t it Phil. Let’s not dance round it, our MPs - who should know way more about the subject than you or I, aren’t raising the revolver against our country’s head and pulling the trigger as you commanded. 

 

Forget how the elected classes have  lied to us, forget the how we’ve have the most shameful 2 year period of British politics since the year dot, on the back of the most shameful electoral campaign ever. 

 

If you you want to run the country devoid of facts andon misplaced emotion like a really **** episode of X factor we could try that. Given the record of Chris grayling, Theresa May etc, we replace our elected officials with 650 crack addicts and phone in our demands like strictly. Maybe we get the best dancers (or policiesif you prefer) or perhaps we get some old hoofer into the semis who is useless (brexit, law and order etc) just for giggles?

 

Facts? Experience? Let’s get rid of that!

[phil752 10]

1 hour ago, tinfoilhat said:

It’s because you might not get brexit isn’t it Phil. Let’s not dance round it, our MPs - who should know way more about the subject than you or I, aren’t raising the revolver against our country’s head and pulling the trigger as you commanded. 

 

Forget how the elected classes have  lied to us, forget the how we’ve have the most shameful 2 year period of British politics since the year dot, on the back of the most shameful electoral campaign ever. 

 

If you you want to run the country devoid of facts andon misplaced emotion like a really **** episode of X factor we could try that. Given the record of Chris grayling, Theresa May etc, we replace our elected officials with 650 crack addicts and phone in our demands like strictly. Maybe we get the best dancers (or policiesif you prefer) or perhaps we get some old hoofer into the semis who is useless (brexit, law and order etc) just for giggles?

 

Facts? Experience? Let’s get rid of that!

Whether you like it or not it just seems that the political class has, botched it all. If you are a in favor of remain or leave. It dos not seem to matter. It has just highlighter, that the incumbent politicians, seem to want to do damage to the country to better themselves. Or party.

Edited March 11, 2019 by phil752

[Anna B 1,401]

29 minutes ago, ECCOnoob said:

Surely that will depend on whether a particular "independent" is any good.    Its a bit of a broad statement to assume that they would be any better/worse than the party affiliated MPs or that it is even necesarry to have a "protest vote".

 

Lets remember a basic fact.   Despite what many people wrongly assume, in our system we dont vote for "parties".  We dont even vote for a "Prime Minister".   We simply vote for an MP to represent our respective constituancy.    That is the only thing we have a say into.    That local candidate is what matters. 

 

I did not personally vote for my current constituancy MP (who BTW is now officially an independant).   However, despite my own feelings, they were the majority elected winner in this area and that's who I have to deal with until we get a choice once again.    Simple democracy.

 

There is no broad brush assumptions that can be realistically applied here.    Until election time.   Until the leaflets from our relevant and local MP candidates drop through our letterboxes.   Until people have a chance to study the candidates and their proposals.  Until people are ready to make an informed choice....

 

....who can really give an opinon on such a question.

 

Those who can concern me a great deal.    They are just the type of people who blindly follow a party or blindly follow what their parents and grandparents did.  I have no such loyalty.   I choose on the merits of a candiate presented before me at the time.  Nothing else.   I really wish others would follow suit and we may have a more diverse house overall.

And yet we have no say in who the candidate is. 

 

That is decided from a short list by party officials and simply presented to the electorate in a take it or leave it fashion. And of course the party will pick the candidate who is unlikely to rock the boat, which is why nothing ever changes.

 

Of course almost anybody can stand as an Independent, but they have very little chance of being elected. Only 12 Independent candidates have been elected to Parliament since 1945.

 

 

 

 

[phil752 10]

9 minutes ago, Anna B said:

And yet we have no say in who the candidate is. 

 

That is decided from a short list by party officials and simply presented to the electorate in a take it or leave it fashion. And of course the party will pick the candidate who is unlikely to rock the boat, which is why nothing ever changes.

 

Of course almost anybody can stand as an Independent, but they have very little chance of being elected. Only 12 Independent candidates have been elected to Parliament since 1945.

 

 

 

 

maybe it is time for the American system of primaries, so anyone can stand, for any party, not leaving it up to a cabal

Edited March 11, 2019 by phil752

[dropout 10]

1 hour ago, phil752 said:

Without a doubt every one has seen how the political class has disrespected the electorate. Who would vote for their party or MP again?   Is it time to have a protest vote and give independents a go. Even as a protest it may see a change in the voting system.

Yeah man,  reckon it is.

 

Then again, still be a waste of time, probably.

 

Much of the time in the English political system .what people DO NOT Realise, is that, whatever (mainstream) party they might vote for, that party, when it SEIZES power, then has MANY people in Government, yes, that's right, in YOUR government, that are NOT politicians at all, NOT in any way elected, nor chosen by the people and these CHOSEN (advisors,millionaires, hangers-on, etc),people form part of the Government that make far reaching, crucial and life or death decisions, usually based on money first. 

 

In any case such a Government/party is a minority party/Government, MOST of the time, in that, usually those that voted for the "other lot" and those that chose NOT to vote, far Outnumber any votes for any particular Government party....and yet, time after time after time, the "lot" that get in and SEIZE power, declare it to be a mandate and a Victory and choose to Tax us and Spend it, regardless of us,the voters and our wishes. Scandalous really, so much of the time.

 

People should really have more sense and nouse....politicians do disrepect the electorate, so often and, though it may not change things straight away, Independents with integrity and Good, true causes, could be a refreshing change.

 

Or it could just be simpler and maybe even more democratic, to not vote for Politicians/parties at all?

 

[phil752 10]

19 minutes ago, dropout said:

Yeah man,  reckon it is.

 

Then again, still be a waste of time, probably.

 

Much of the time in the English political system .what people DO NOT Realise, is that, whatever (mainstream) party they might vote for, that party, when it SEIZES power, then has MANY people in Government, yes, that's right, in YOUR government, that are NOT politicians at all, NOT in any way elected, nor chosen by the people and these CHOSEN (advisors,millionaires, hangers-on, etc),people form part of the Government that make far reaching, crucial and life or death decisions, usually based on money first. 

 

In any case such a Government/party is a minority party/Government, MOST of the time, in that, usually those that voted for the "other lot" and those that chose NOT to vote, far Outnumber any votes for any particular Government party....and yet, time after time after time, the "lot" that get in and SEIZE power, declare it to be a mandate and a Victory and choose to Tax us and Spend it, regardless of us,the voters and our wishes. Scandalous really, so much of the time.

 

People should really have more sense and nouse....politicians do disrepect the electorate, so often and, though it may not change things straight away, Independents with integrity and Good, true causes, could be a refreshing change.

 

Or it could just be simpler and maybe even more democratic, to not vote for Politicians/parties at all?

 

refreshing thought Clegg springs to mind conning University votes in Hallam. Why should COBOLs dictate to us. Why do parties think it is OK to parachute candidates into safe seat. how long will people put up with others saying a pig with a red rosette, would be elected in Sheffield, Rotherham and Doncaster. We need the proper people for the job. As an after thought pigs in a blue rosette in Abbingdon ditto.

Edited March 11, 2019 by phil752

[El Cid 210]

5 hours ago, phil752 said:

Without a doubt every one has seen how the political class has disrespected the electorate. Who would vote for their party or MP again?   Is it time to have a protest vote and give independents a go. Even as a protest it may see a change in the voting system.

I am active in my local party, but when you think about who the next candidate will be, they will select a doctor or a teacher type.

So they will all be out of touch with the ordinary person. I am just an average Joe earning £16k, but I believe they will select someone that has been to university. Maybe in a year or two I will give it a go, but I stand to lose £500.

[melthebell 862]

Whoever you vote for, government wins.

[woodview 10]

There is a massive disconnect.

Regradless of party, you get certain types who want to be mps. They have less and less experience of what living in the world the rest of us live in. Without that experience they cant represent us properly.

I wouldn't lose any sleep if all 650 were sacked and replaced with a cross section of the general public, like a long term Jury duty. Then stood for re-election based on performance.

[El Cid 210]

2 hours ago, woodview said:

There is a massive disconnect.

Regradless of party, you get certain types who want to be mps.

3

How many people on here have ever stood for election, at the lowest parish council level to being an MP or MEP? We like to complain, but does anyone actually do anything about it?