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The Consequences of Brexit [Part 6] READ FIRST POST BEFORE COMMENTING

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16 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

3a could never happen. It would have to be 3b, but I still feel Brexit could win again. I don't see a way out.

3a could happen given that the majority of MPs are remain supporters.

 

Unfortunately the majority of them on both sides of the argument have colluded in the big lie that 'Brexit is the will of the people' so see a second referendum as the only way out of this impasse.

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2 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

3a could happen given that the majority of MPs are remain supporters.

 

Unfortunately the majority of them on both sides of the argument have colluded in the big lie that 'Brexit is the will of the people' so see a second referendum as the only way out of this impasse.

We leave on March 29th one way or the other. 

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27 minutes ago, Penistone999 said:

We leave on March 29th one way or the other. 

Can't see it myself.

 

There's no way that May's plan will get through the House, and I cannot see Parliament allowing a no deal Brexit. So it seems the only options are for the EU to agree to an extension, or for Parliament to rescind Article 50 and then start negotiations to trigger it again, with Parliament taking then lead rather than the government under both options.

Edited by JFKvsNixon

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An interesting if slightly sensationalist item on Newsnight just now, on the far-right's  attempts to hijack the yellow vest movement and link it to the Leave means Leave campaign. 

 

It included a piece on what we were discussing yesterday on the conspiracy theory about three teenagers killed by a drunk driver in West London last year. Unfortunately they have managed to co-opt the mother of one of the boys to their bonkers campaign who is now a regular speaker at Britain First rallies in a similar way to what the BNP did with the mother of Charlene Downes in Blackpool.

 

It is hard to take them seriously when they are chanting "We're not far right, just right!" while making nazi salutes and waving European neo-nazi flags.

 

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It's hard to admit you're wrong, but we all make mistakes and you just have to learn from them. I've made loads of mistakes, and I'm sure I'll continue to do so...

 

With the announcements of business closures and manufacturers leaving the UK mounting daily, job losses in their thousands, prominent brexiteers moving their finances/domiciles overseas, and the 'brexit means brexit' campaigners of the yellow vests movement becoming more and more closely associated with neo-nazi movements, with nazi salutes and neo-nazi flags on full parade today...

 

Surely it's time for most reasonable minded brexit voters to admit that they made a misjudgement back in 2016 and it's time to call a halt to the self harm that we're doing to our great country!! The question is, how do we allow our brexit friends to change direction without losing face, and without causing further harm to our country? Remainers need to find a way of bringing people round rather than be confrontational, and with a groundswell of opinion the govt will have to listen.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, viewsonic said:

It's hard to admit you're wrong, but we all make mistakes and you just have to learn from them. I've made loads of mistakes, and I'm sure I'll continue to do so...

 

With the announcements of business closures and manufacturers leaving the UK mounting daily, job losses in their thousands, prominent brexiteers moving their finances/domiciles overseas, and the 'brexit means brexit' campaigners of the yellow vests movement becoming more and more closely associated with neo-nazi movements, with nazi salutes and neo-nazi flags on full parade today...

 

Surely it's time for most reasonable minded brexit voters to admit that they made a misjudgement back in 2016 and it's time to call a halt to the self harm that we're doing to our great country!! The question is, how do we allow our brexit friends to change direction without losing face, and without causing further harm to our country? Remainers need to find a way of bringing people round rather than be confrontational, and with a groundswell of opinion the govt will have to listen.

 

 

Penistone and Carboot are weakening I think.

Edited by RJRB

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4 minutes ago, RJRB said:

Penistone and Carboot are weakening I think.

Never. I want a No Deal Brexit. Always have and always will. 

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31 minutes ago, viewsonic said:

The question is, how do we allow our brexit friends to change direction without losing face, and without causing further harm to our country? Remainers need to find a way of bringing people round rather than be confrontational, and with a groundswell of opinion the govt will have to listen.

I think that the first thing we have to do is split the 'normal' Brexit voters away from the crackpots, cranks and racists of the far right who are mugging them off every bit as much as the posh boy millionaires. When they realise that neither of these groups have their interests at heart then maybe a rational debate can be started.

 

I hate using the word brainwashed outside of discussion of religious cults, but the avalanche of fake news mainly through social media has also taken its toll on a lot of people. Not only have many been fed the fake news, they have at the same time been fed a narrative that not only is fake news true but any person or organisation which says otherwise is perpertrating some great conspiracy to cover up 'the truth'.

 

I think the best way that Leave voters can save face is to realise that they have been mugged off and get angry not only with those who did it but also with the government which has facilitated it and brought the country to its knees.

 

Only then can we start to make progress.

 

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9 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

3a could never happen. It would have to be 3b, but I still feel Brexit could win again. I don't see a way out.

All these people who are currently seeing themselves, their friends, family or community losing jobs, directly because of brexit, they'd still vote for it again?

6 hours ago, Penistone999 said:

Never. I want a No Deal Brexit. Always have and always will. 

Yes, but you don't actually give a stuff about the country or anyone else except yourself.

7 hours ago, viewsonic said:

It's hard to admit you're wrong, but we all make mistakes and you just have to learn from them. I've made loads of mistakes, and I'm sure I'll continue to do so...

 

With the announcements of business closures and manufacturers leaving the UK mounting daily, job losses in their thousands, prominent brexiteers moving their finances/domiciles overseas, and the 'brexit means brexit' campaigners of the yellow vests movement becoming more and more closely associated with neo-nazi movements, with nazi salutes and neo-nazi flags on full parade today...

 

Surely it's time for most reasonable minded brexit voters to admit that they made a misjudgement back in 2016 and it's time to call a halt to the self harm that we're doing to our great country!! The question is, how do we allow our brexit friends to change direction without losing face, and without causing further harm to our country? Remainers need to find a way of bringing people round rather than be confrontational, and with a groundswell of opinion the govt will have to listen.

 

 

The yellow vest movement in the UK are people protesting austerity.

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6 hours ago, Penistone999 said:

Never. I want a No Deal Brexit. Always have and always will. 

You are going to be disappointed

7 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

All these people who are currently seeing themselves, their friends, family or community losing jobs, directly because of brexit, they'd still vote for it again?

Yes, but you don't actually give a stuff about the country or anyone else except yourself.

The yellow vest movement in the UK are people protesting austerity.

Watching the news last night the U.K. yellow vests look like a variety of far right group members, and a handful of people with genuine social concerns. Some alternative types in there too.

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34 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

You are going to be disappointed

I (still) don't think he will.

 

May & Corbyn are fighting the same corner of maintaining their party's unity, at the expense of the country if need be. Brexit isn't about the UK, it isn't about respecting any 'will of the people', it's all about party politics and maintaining the political status quo.

 

And all the Labour & Tory MPs know this only too well, which is how and why Parliament has tagged along just fine (but for the theatrics) so far, how and why Parliament still hasn't hijacked the process with mere (single digits) weeks to  go, and how and why Parliament will swallow May's upcoming "Salzburg re-run" (go see the EU Council, demand unicorns, get sent packing, blame EU intransigeance) at the 11th hour and let Brexit pass (but for the theatrics), with her deal or without.

 

You all had your chance, for over 2 years. And it was your job, not the EU27's, to build both political forces countering this party interests-led dynamic, and momentum behind a softer compromise, all for influencing your domestic politics in time before end March 2019. What have we seen? LibDems still on their wilderness walk, a big march some months ago without any political significance whatsoever, and very lately 7 MPs splintering from Labour, albeit still not on a pro-softer-Brexit or anti-Brexit platform.

 

The same general apathy I saw, and which greatly influenced my decision to brexode in late summer 2017, still reigns as far as I can see (but for niche debates like on here). You'll get taken out with barely more than a whisper, and this is on you all by now. You obviously all know who your betters are, and are happy enough with that to let them carry on. No surprise there, people still get the government they deserve.

Edited by L00b

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Once upon a time Honda moved part of its production to the UK, to be inside the EU because it needed to be inside the single market.

Now that free trade has become more common, with the EU giving free trade to every Tom, Dick and Harry; there is no longer a need for Honda to produce its vehicles inside the EU.

Every political party espouses free trade,  if we want jobs and manufacturing inside the UK; we need tariffs.

Free trade benefits the countries with the cheapest workforce, UK wages have been sliding for a number of years.

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