Supertram Rail Replacement 2019

[BigAl1 143]

I think you will find that Stagecoach Supertram have insisted to Stagecoach bus that the bus replacements leave according to the timetable and ignore the arriving tram  and its passengers. yes they are all Stagecoach but they operate as two companies

 

stagecoach bus have put a lot of effort over the last year or so to holding the buses for the arriving trams on the tramlink service and are to be congratulated even if the Supertram part could not care less and will ignore the incoming bus

 

My experience of the replacement bus is that they have been running pretty well to timetable as they have long timetabled stops along the route but of course on the Stockbridge route they like everyone else have to problems caused by the roadworks to contend with which may not help at times

[Andy C 85]

Like any other registered bus service, the traffic commissioner requires Stagecoach to run the buses to the timetable under the terms of their bus operators' licence or face disciplinary action. Allowances can be made for one off traffic incidents etc but not awaiting connecting trams. Its generally a high frequency service so timekeeping takes higher priority.

Edited August 21, 2019 by Andy C

[GleadlessLad 12]

The main problems for me were caused by their decision to run only 2 Tram Replacement buses per hour in the evenings, which I thought was a very poor decision & not at all service / customer focussed & showed a worrying level of disregard for their evening passengers.

 

I heard that their reasoning was that not many people use their service at those times, so it wasn't worth providing  more than 2 buses each hour (to replace 6 trams, 3 Blue & 3 Yellow).  So the usual 10 minute  evening service frequency between Hillsborough & town was replaced by a 30 minute service frequency, an issue which was compounded by a number of occasions when the timetabled bus simply didn't turn up at all, meaning a very long wait for the next one.

 

Also Stagecoach bus drivers on their other routes between Hillsborough & town repeatedly refused to accept my tram ticket, despite publicity from Supertram stating that tram tickets would be accepted on those services (e.g. Stagecoach 52).  Additionally, on many occasions these regular buses weren't an option for me because they don't go where the tram goes & where I need to go.

[Andy C 85]

4 hours ago, GleadlessLad said:

The main problems for me were caused by their decision to run only 2 Tram Replacement buses per hour in the evenings, which I thought was a very poor decision & not at all service / customer focussed & showed a worrying level of disregard for their evening passengers.

 

I heard that their reasoning was that not many people use their service at those times, so it wasn't worth providing  more than 2 buses each hour (to replace 6 trams, 3 Blue & 3 Yellow).  So the usual 10 minute  evening service frequency between Hillsborough & town was replaced by a 30 minute service frequency, an issue which was compounded by a number of occasions when the timetabled bus simply didn't turn up at all, meaning a very long wait for the next one.

 

Also Stagecoach bus drivers on their other routes between Hillsborough & town repeatedly refused to accept my tram ticket, despite publicity from Supertram stating that tram tickets would be accepted on those services (e.g. Stagecoach 52).  Additionally, on many occasions these regular buses weren't an option for me because they don't go where the tram goes & where I need to go.

and were those two evening buses an hour full?

[BigAl1 143]

20 hours ago, Andy C said:

Like any other registered bus service, the traffic commissioner requires Stagecoach to run the buses to the timetable under the terms of their bus operators' licence or face disciplinary action. Allowances can be made for one off traffic incidents etc but not awaiting connecting trams. Its generally a high frequency service so timekeeping takes higher priority.

So why are not Stagecoach Bus being penalised for regularly holding the bus for the arriving tram on the normal tramlink services when there is no rail replacement

[GleadlessLad 12]

12 hours ago, Andy C said:

and were those two evening buses an hour full?

No, but the evening trams which these buses were supposed to replace are rarely full either - yet a reasonable level of  evening tram service is provided despite some of these services operating  below capacity.

 

Nor were the daytime tram replacement buses always full outside peak times - yet a sensible service frequency was provided for these buses, all day, until the evening.

 

Surely we should be promoting the usage of public transport - issues of climate change, congestion etc - & it's therefore necessary to run services at a reasonable frequency, not solely an approach which you appear to support of only providing services when they can be run at maximum passenger capacity?  Regardless of whether these are regular services or tram replacement services, passengers still need to be where they want to be, when they want to be there without excessive journey times caused by a severely reduced frequency.

 

It doesn't seem to be unreasonable for the public to expect a tram replacement bus service to operate at - about - the same frequency as the trams which the buses are supposed to replace?

 

 

[Andy C 85]

20 minutes ago, GleadlessLad said:

No, but the evening trams which these buses were supposed to replace are rarely full either - yet a reasonable level of  evening tram service is provided despite some of these services operating  below capacity.

 

Nor were the daytime tram replacement buses always full outside peak times - yet a sensible service frequency was provided for these buses, all day, until the evening.

 

Surely we should be promoting the usage of public transport - issues of climate change, congestion etc - & it's therefore necessary to run services at a reasonable frequency, not solely an approach which you appear to support of only providing services when they can be run at maximum passenger capacity?  Regardless of whether these are regular services or tram replacement services, passengers still need to be where they want to be, when they want to be there without excessive journey times caused by a severely reduced frequency.

 

It doesn't seem to be unreasonable for the public to expect a tram replacement bus service to operate at - about - the same frequency as the trams which the buses are supposed to replace?

 

 

Simple economics - Supertram aren't going to keep spending thousands of pounds laying on buses that aren't used.

[GleadlessLad 12]

55 minutes ago, Andy C said:

Simple economics - Supertram aren't going to keep spending thousands of pounds laying on buses that aren't used.

The buses certainly are used - they're just not full; as I've said, the trams aren't full at that time either but they still run, as they certainly should do.

 

Surely the whole point of public transport is that busy services help to subsidise less busy ones?

 

 

[BigAl1 143]

surely the whole point of public transport is to serve the needs of the traveling public

[Annie Bynnol 612]

Are Tram substitute buses, registered bus routes?

If they are not then they can operate their own timetable to suit the arrivals of trams at Hillsborough ( and be able to bring people back to Hillsborough to meet the tram.

As do buses that replace trains (with a few tweaks).

 

There are also registered bus services that meet trains at many locations throughout the country.

And dozens more that buses that meet buses to transfer passengers.

 

Sometimes a Taxi service is used instead of a coach/bus.

 

All a bit late now as the RR comes to an end

[Andy C 85]

42 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

Are Tram substitute buses, registered bus routes?

If they are not then they can operate their own timetable to suit the arrivals of trams at Hillsborough ( and be able to bring people back to Hillsborough to meet the tram.

As do buses that replace trains (with a few tweaks).

 

There are also registered bus services that meet trains at many locations throughout the country.

And dozens more that buses that meet buses to transfer passengers.

 

Sometimes a Taxi service is used instead of a coach/bus.

 

All a bit late now as the RR comes to an end

They are registered local bus services, a legal requirement if charging a fare.

 

They operate under different regulations to National Rail replacement buses, which operate under British Railways byelaws.

 

Tram replacement buses are scheduled to meet trams, but are required to stick to the timetable.

2 hours ago, amnicoll said:

surely the whole point of public transport is to serve the needs of the traveling public

It is the responsibility of our local authority, SYPTE, to provide public subsidy to fund a public service if it is viewed that there is a wider social or economic need in the community to provide a service above and beyond what is financially viable to provide commercially.

 

If Supertram were to have continuing laying on frequent buses (in addition to already having trams and tram staff to pay for) at the cost of many thousands of pounds in the evenings that nobody used they would have gone bankrupt.

 

Simple truth is, very few fare paying passengers used the replacement buses at night, the level of service now provided has enough capacity for the numbers using it.

 

Additionally a big proportion of passengers these days buy Citywide or SY Connect tickets that work on all buses and trams in Sheffield and I get the impression from people I know that many of those choose to use other local bus services rather than the tram replacement ones.

 

Also of course a good number of those using Middlewood trams at night are connecting with the Stocksbridge bus and they were perfectly happy getting their usual bus without having to change at Middlewood, for those passengers they got the normal frequency.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Andy C

[GleadlessLad 12]

1 hour ago, Andy C said:

 

Simple truth is, very few fare paying passengers used the replacement buses at night, the level of service now provided has enough capacity for the numbers using it.

 

 

Thanks for the detailed explanation in your post (#132) Andy.

 

With regard to your point I've quoted above re. the evening tram replacement buses though, this sounds rather like a "chicken & egg" situation?  i.e. a significantly reduced level of service is provided, which people then don't use due to the inconvenience caused, with the lack of usage then being used as justification for the significant reduction in service level?

 

My experience has been that, due to the 30 minute bus frequency, my evening journeys between Gleadless & Hillsborough - including stops at locations between Shalesmoor & Hillsborough e.g. Tesco on Infirmary Rd - were taking a ridiculous amount of additional time.  In the end I got so fed up with it that I ended up using my car instead, which meant that, in addition to paying £50 per month to Supertram for my Tram Only Megarider Extra, I also had to spend money on petrol in order to make the journeys which I normally make by tram.  This was bad for the environment too.

Edited August 22, 2019 by GleadlessLad