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Does anyone still think the UK should have got involved in the Syria conflict?

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In 2013 there was a debate in parliament over whether to get involved in the Syrian conflict. The majority was for not getting involved. In 2015 another debate was held and that time the majority was for UK military involvement, with Hilary Benn's speech in favour of intervention widely praised.

 

In reality, the UK did not get involved. There were a handful of airstrikes on Daesh oil wells and that was it.

 

Over the last 4 years I haven't been aware of anyone making the case that it would have been preferable for the UK to have become involved, probably because no-one actually wants a war with Russia and Iran. 

 

Personally, though I think it's dreadful that the revolution in Syria failed and Assad survived, I think it would probably have been worse with UK military involvement. I think the conflict would still be going on and alliances with all sorts of monsters would have been made.

 

What about you?

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Yes, I think if the UK Parliament had voted in favour of getting involved in the Syria conflict, then  the situation would have turned out better than what has happened because the UK didn't get involved. If Milliband hadn't done the dirty, then the USA would have decided to take action against Assad and the Russians wouldn't have got involved.

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11 minutes ago, Bob Arctor said:

In reality, the UK did not get involved. There were a handful of airstrikes on Daesh oil wells and that was it.

 

In August 2016, the BBC published photographs taken in June that year that it said showed British special forces soldiers apparently guarding the perimeter of the New Syrian Army's base.

 

In April 2018 four RAF Tornados joined with US and French forces to carry out airstrikes in Syria early on Saturday as Theresa May said that there was no alternative to military action.

The prime minister said that the “co-ordinated and targeted strikes” were taken against the Syrian regime’s chemical weapons capability.

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Up until the Russian involvement, it was hobsons choice: back Assad, back the FSA (whoever the **** they are) and the Kurds or forget about the whole thing whilst thousands were killed. As it happens the Kurds did most of the heavy lifting in relation to ISIS and have now been thrown under the bus as per normal and the russians have made sure Assad isn't going anywhere.

 

Our collective brexit-naval gazing has taken attention away from sand based adventures and this one I'm quite happy to leave to the russians. I think we could have helped assad better than the russians in some respects - we have better kit. They have stronger stomachs though and give far less thought to collateral damage, so were able to push through and not worry about the nicities.

 

I'd let the yanks handle Iran on their own if they want to as well (pence was left under no illusion on how little support the Americans have re: Iraq after a recent speach).

 

I think in the West we feel the need to do something - I lost count of the different articles I read asking the powers that be to stop the slaughter in syria without offering any suggestions on how we might go about that. Sometimes the best we can is watch it happen and maybe stop selling arms to the protagonists and leave it at that 

 

Post brexit two things will happen - we will realise our position in the world has dropped a bit and we won't feel the need to get involved or we will realise our position in the world has dropped and we start throwing our weight and shiney new aircraft carriers about.

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2 minutes ago, El Cid said:

In August 2016, the BBC published photographs taken in June that year that it said showed British special forces soldiers apparently guarding the perimeter of the New Syrian Army's base.

 

In April 2018 four RAF Tornados joined with US and French forces to carry out airstrikes in Syria early on Saturday as Theresa May said that there was no alternative to military action.

The prime minister said that the “co-ordinated and targeted strikes” were taken against the Syrian regime’s chemical weapons capability.

The OP has mentioned the year 2013 which is when the UK Parliament voted against getting involved in the Syrian conflict.  

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Syria  was always going to be a Catch 22 in many ways mainly due to the difficulty of who to support. 

 

My enemy's enemy is my friend doesn't really work there when so many different groups are making up the opposition. Despite the universal condemnation of Assad, secretly many in the west saw him as the only one strong enough in the region to stand up to ISIS. And let's not forget, the west has an appalling track record of post conflict planning.

 

For all the 'we should have got stuck in' sentiment, how would people feel if we had facilitated the fall of Assad only to see ISIS then become the replacement Syrian government? 

 

In the absence of any united opposition, we have to face the reality of the situation which is that either Assad or ISIS will be running the show in Syria for the foreseeable, and secretly most of us would rather see Assad in power.

 

 

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As if we have not been involved in Syria years before the uprising , helping Uncle Sam in destabilising to get rid of Assad,  something that had been an ongoing plan for years prior to the so called civil war.

 

So refresh you memory regarding the TRIAL of a TERRORIST in 2015.

 

 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq

 

Wed 3 Jun 2015

 

The  trial in London of a Swedish man, Bherlin Gildo, accused of terrorism in Syria, collapsed after it became clear British intelligence had been arming the same rebel groups the defendant was charged with supporting.

 

The prosecution abandoned the case, apparently to avoid embarrassing the intelligence services. The defence argued that going ahead with the trial would have been an “affront to justice” when there was plenty of evidence the British state was itself providing “extensive support” to the armed Syrian opposition.

That didn’t only include the “non-lethal assistance” boasted of by the government (including body armour and military vehicles), but training, logistical support and the secret supply of “arms on a massive scale”. Reports were cited that MI6 had cooperated with the CIA on a “rat line” of arms transfers from Libyan stockpiles to the Syrian rebels in 2012 after the fall of the Gaddafi regime.

Clearly, the absurdity of sending someone to prison for doing what ministers and their security officials were up to themselves became too much. But it’s only the latest of a string of such cases. Less fortunate was a London cab driver Anis Sardar, who was given a life sentence a fortnight earlier for taking part in 2007 in resistance to the occupation of Iraq by US and British forces. Armed opposition to illegal invasion and occupation clearly doesn’t constitute terrorism or murder on most definitions, including the Geneva convention.

 

Maybe its time to realise what our political elites and their closet backers as well as collaborators the US is really up to, so forget the propaganda lies, its a rush, for total US global dominance before the financial debt bomb blows up in the not too far off future.   The tipping point came in August when the tax returns of the USA failed to balance with the interest rate on the debt. https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2013/sep/15/chris-kapanga/interest-payments-us-debt-exceeds-us-tax-revenue-w/ 

So the seeds of  the next financial catastrophe or pathway to using nukes against either Iran or China or both is now pretty much an even bet.  So global financial debt meltdown  or nuclear war, it’s a simple choice and the future is in the hands of the US Psychopathic elites that bought you, Freedom and Democracy to Iraq, Libya, coming soon to a TV near you, the  Axis of Evil” show where Venezuela is first then it the turn of Cuba and Nicaragua, closely followed by Iran  and then folks it off to CHINA for some spectacular fireworks

Edited by justinelle

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11 hours ago, Lockdoctor said:

The OP has mentioned the year 2013 which is when the UK Parliament voted against getting involved in the Syrian conflict.  

Yes, but the OP makes no mention of UK participation in the airstrikes on Syria in 2018. I think that's all El Cid was doing when he mentioned that, giving a full and up to date account of UK involvement. 

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5 hours ago, justinelle said:

As if we have not been involved in Syria years before the uprising , helping Uncle Sam in destabilising to get rid of Assad,  something that had been an ongoing plan for years prior to the so called civil war.

 

So refresh you memory regarding the TRIAL of a TERRORIST in 2015.

 

 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq

Thanks for sharing the story of Berlin Gildo, it had slipped my mind until you just reminded me.  

 

Quote

 

So the seeds of  the next financial catastrophe or pathway to using nukes against either Iran or China or both is now pretty much an even bet.  So global financial debt meltdown  or nuclear war, it’s a simple choice and the future is in the hands of the US Psychopathic elites that bought you, Freedom and Democracy to Iraq, Libya, coming soon to a TV near you, the  Axis of Evil” show where Venezuela is first then it the turn of Cuba and Nicaragua, closely followed by Iran  and then folks it off to CHINA for some spectacular fireworks

It's now the  "Troika of Tyranny" (Venezuela, Nicaragua & Cuba). That's the latest slogan. Although it does have a very similar ring to it as the "Axis of Evil" (Iran, Iraq and North Korea) that Bush spoke of in the build up to the Iraq war.  

Edited by FormerSheff

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6 hours ago, justinelle said:

 The defence argued that going ahead with the trial would have been an “affront to justice” when there was plenty of evidence the British state was itself providing “extensive support” to the armed Syrian opposition.

 

Also an affront to justice when justice is only applied when it's expedient (for the state) to do so.

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2 hours ago, FormerSheff said:

Thanks for sharing the story of Berlin Gildo, it had slipped my mind until you just reminded me.  

 

It's now the  "Troika of Tyranny" (Venezuela, Nicaragua & Cuba). That's the latest slogan. Although it does have a very similar ring to it as the "Axis of Evil" (Iran, Iraq and North Korea) that Bush spoke of in the build up to the Iraq war.  

Thank you,  I was getting carried away, as now the USA has thrown off the humanitarian ,  as in Libya and Bolton stated its the control of OIL, so they can turn off the taps for China 

 

Just wait for the reasons for war, the drums have already started beating.   Sorry about the AXIS  which proves my memory wires sometimes get crossed  but you get the point we are lied and lied and lied to, and any truth is quickly burried and forgotten, which justifies building more deceptions.    

 

IF you want to know about the REAL AGENDAS the British have been involved in and have a really strong stomach,  and can control your anger, then 2003 - MARK CURTIS  in the WEB OF DECEIT is a terrifying introduction into the elite British minset.   You will not believe it, but its all factual, all evidence based horror. 

Edited by justinelle

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1 hour ago, justinelle said:

Thank you,  I was getting carried away, as now the USA has thrown off the humanitarian ,  as in Libya and Bolton stated its the control of OIL, so they can turn off the taps for China 

 

Just wait for the reasons for war, the drums have already started beating.   Sorry about the AXIS  which proves my memory wires sometimes get crossed  but you get the point we are lied and lied and lied to, and any truth is quickly burried and forgotten, which justifies building more deceptions.    

 

 

No problem, and yes, I get the point.

 

John Bolton's 'Troika of Tyranny' (or "Triangle of Terror", as he's also said) is just a rebranding of Bush's  "Axis of Evil'  anyway.

 

Just as Pompeo's :  “Either you stand with the forces of freedom, or you’re in league with Maduro and his mayhem.” Is a rebranding of Bush's:  "You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists" , but with alliteration (Forces, Freedom, Maduro, Mayhem) for "extra effect".

 

Thanks for the book recommendation. When you said Mark Curtis, I also remembered the documentary film maker, Adam Curtis of "The Power of Nightmares' fame (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares

 

(Sorry  OP,  if this more rightly belongs in the 'propaganda' thread) 

Edited by FormerSheff

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