woodview 10 #13 Posted February 12, 2019 7 minutes ago, steve68 said: Given that crime isn't always reported by the public and that reported crime isn't always recorded by the police...... how long is that piece of string? https://www.thestar.co.uk/news/south-yorkshire-police-failed-to-record-17-000-crimes-in-a-year-police-watchdog-fears-1-9555162 According to HM Inspectorate , SYP failed to record approx 17,000 crimes. But of the ones they did, over last 12 months Robbery up Burglary up violent crime up drug offences up possession of weapons up public order offences up Of course Police numbers dropping has a large part to play in all that, not just any follow on punishment for apprehended offenders. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tzijlstra 11 #14 Posted February 12, 2019 34 minutes ago, steve68 said: Given that crime isn't always reported by the public and that reported crime isn't always recorded by the police...... how long is that piece of string? So your and prolific's assertion that crime is up is based on a piece of string? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Ontarian1981 10 #15 Posted February 12, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Broakham said: I would think that the general law-abiding public would be more concerned with the number of violent incidents and suicides out prison. Well said, don't feel sorry for the felons, feel for the innocent victims of their acts. As with the drug dealers killing each other's gang members, who cares? Edited February 12, 2019 by Ontarian1981 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
ANGELFIRE1 10 #16 Posted February 12, 2019 9 hours ago, Halibut said: I dispute the idea that 'criminals have the upper hand', but of the two options you offer, no fear of getting caught is by far the greater problem than fear of prison. This is why people who claim that prisons are too cushy and should be even more punitive and unpleasant are idiots. I see you call people idiots who do not agree with your opinion, is that the correct term to use, I think not. I could post similar that all people who disagree with making our prisons places where criminals would not want to go are @@@@, but I prefer not to. Angel1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
woodview 10 #17 Posted February 12, 2019 1 hour ago, tzijlstra said: So your and prolific's assertion that crime is up is based on a piece of string? It wasn't my post, but I based mine on this: https://www.ukcrimestats.com/Police_Force/South_Yorkshire_Police Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Broakham 10 #18 Posted February 12, 2019 Victims of crime do not choose to be victims. Criminals DO choose to commit crime. All those who whine about the rights of offenders and claim that they are a product of their upbringing do nothing more than insult victims, not to mention the thousands of people from difficult backgrounds who choose not to commit crime. These apologists really do need to reset their moral compass. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Shunter 0 #19 Posted February 12, 2019 Without going into personal detail, the state of our prison service at the moment is considerably different to that of 20 years ago. Officer numbers are down and inmate numbers are increasing steadily, causing much more lock down time than ever in order to keep control which in turn causes higher amounts of violence. There is a system which categorises its residents but all that does is promote the idea that different levels of crime deserve different types of offence management but when confined together the whole atmosphere is destined to pool as one entity, giving rise to hierarchy from within. Strict regimes are an answer but not acceptable due to many factors, which is the problem. Sadly a lot of people do their time and are quite happy to promote their "Bit of Bird" Strangly enough myself and another few would be gangsters have been discussing this on the M1 Mess thread, and it seems that they aren't too bothered about breaking the law for their own reasons, whilst a huge proportion of the public are keen to uphold the law, however small or large the offence may be. Judging by the sheer lack of respect for the law that some people show, even here on a forum, it's pretty clear to me that they assume it's easy to get away with rather than fear of custody. 23 minutes ago, Broakham said: Victims of crime do not choose to be victims. Criminals DO choose to commit crime. All those who whine about the rights of offenders and claim that they are a product of their upbringing do nothing more than insult victims, not to mention the thousands of people from difficult backgrounds who choose not to commit crime. These apologists really do need to reset their moral compass. It's the apologists that are smothering the whole system. Well said. 1 hour ago, ANGELFIRE1 said: I see you call people idiots who do not agree with your opinion, is that the correct term to use, I think not. I could post similar that all people who disagree with making our prisons places where criminals would not want to go are @@@@, but I prefer not to. Angel1. That is what is needed. Prison should be as much of a scary thought as it was years ago. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Shunter 0 #20 Posted February 12, 2019 10 hours ago, Halibut said: I dispute the idea that 'criminals have the upper hand', but of the two options you offer, no fear of getting caught is by far the greater problem than fear of prison. This is why people who claim that prisons are too cushy and should be even more punitive and unpleasant are idiots. You need to have a look at today's prison service. 2 hours ago, Broakham said: I would think that the general law-abiding public would be more concerned with the number of violent incidents and suicides out prison. Absolutely true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
steve68 66 #21 Posted February 12, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, tzijlstra said: So your and prolific's assertion that crime is up is based on a piece of string? No it impossible to gage only estimated at best, the figures banned about are about as accurate as any piece of string. as it's never a true or accurate figure, it safe to assume it's increased, you only have to browse the Brexit thread to see posters claiming an increase in hate crimes, police in sheffiled have stopped giving out reports of incidents on Facebook, no longer giving out warnings of local car crimes and theft and robbery home or car etc. Unless it's to highlight what wonderful job they've done. There used to be a Facebook daily incident report which was stopped. Edited February 12, 2019 by steve68 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Top Cats Hat 10 #22 Posted February 13, 2019 6 hours ago, Broakham said: I would think that the general law-abiding public would be more concerned with the number of violent incidents and suicides out prison. The problem with the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade is that it may make people feel better but it doesn't actually help the situation and can actually make it worse. Given that many of these crimes we talk about are repeat offences committed by people who have already done jail time, it absolutely does matter what happens in jail. Making things tougher for people for no other reason than some kind of biblical retribution risks making the situation worse. The problem with the more effective methods of rehabilitation is that they are often seen as the 'soft options'. If people don't like that and would prefer to see tougher, but less effective prison regimes well that is fine but don't then come on internet forums complaining about the crime rate going up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tzijlstra 11 #23 Posted February 13, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, steve68 said: No it impossible to gage only estimated at best, the figures banned about are about as accurate as any piece of string. as it's never a true or accurate figure, it safe to assume it's increased, you only have to browse the Brexit thread to see posters claiming an increase in hate crimes, police in sheffiled have stopped giving out reports of incidents on Facebook, no longer giving out warnings of local car crimes and theft and robbery home or car etc. Unless it's to highlight what wonderful job they've done. There used to be a Facebook daily incident report which was stopped. No it isn’t safe to assume it increased. Crime has been on a downward trend for decades. Edited February 13, 2019 by tzijlstra Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Halibut 12 #24 Posted February 13, 2019 10 hours ago, Shunter said: You need to have a look at today's prison service. I think you do - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/feb/17/uk-brutal-prisons-failing-violence-drugs-gangs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...