Finland and the Basic Income experiment

[tinfoilhat 11]

6 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

It's just that I was asking what evidence you'd used to form that opinion...

How is this different to the situation at the moment?

2 non-working adults with 2 children.  How much do you think they get and how much should they get?

 

Eye watering...  The corporation tax rate keeps getting lowered...

https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9178

Interesting that CT only raises 8% of state income, whereas income tax, NI and VAT together raise about 66%.

They'll get more that £20k a year, certainly if you factor things like housing benefit in (are we including the potential for free school meals, free dental treatment, free prescriptions for the kids etc.). Now if you're treating housing benefits etc differently then, yes, it would stand a better chance of working.

 

If not, yes, corporation tax will have to go up to pay for it. It's got to come from somewhere. 

 

And I know corporation tax isn't mega at the minute. 

 

 

[Cyclone 10]

Free school meals and dental treatment aren't benefits administered by the DWP are they.

 

Like I said, 10k wasn't my figure.  All I've done is explain how the concept works using the figure that someone else suggested.

[Olive 10]

On ‎12‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 14:43, woodview said:

12 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

They'll get more that £20k a year, certainly if you factor things like housing benefit in (are we including the potential for free school meals, free dental treatment, free prescriptions for the kids etc.). Now if you're treating housing benefits etc differently then, yes, it would stand a better chance of working.

 

If not, yes, corporation tax will have to go up to pay for it. It's got to come from somewhere. 

 

And I know corporation tax isn't mega at the minute. 

 

 

 

Isn't there a cap at £26k?  I guess that doesn't include free school meals etc though.

 

In theory, the separated couple with 2 kids, getting £10k per adult would be happy to pick up work on top of that to supplement UBI where they can, whereas now they might be reluctant to work in case they lose benefits.

Edited February 21, 2019 by Olive

[tinfoilhat 11]

5 minutes ago, Olive said:

Isn't there a cap at £26k?  I guess that doesn't include free school meals etc though.

 

In theory, the separated couple with 2 kids, getting £10k per adult would be happy to pick up work on top of that to supplement UBI where they can, whereas now they might be reluctant to work in case they lose benefits.

That's the big selling point to UBI, certainly as temporary/gig economy work - for better or worse - becomes more prevalent. I don't blame people at all for declining 2 months of work it's  going to take them another two to get back on benefits, so the system needs to change.

 

As I said, I'm not knocking the concept, merely questioning the numbers.

[Olive 10]

I feel the same, I think it's a great idea in principle.  Whether or not automation and AI renders large numbers of the workforce without opportunities, a different approach is needed.

 

I doubt whether getting rid of current admin costs associated with a means-tested system, together with inefficiencies in the system, would be sufficient to cover the costs of a UBI that's sufficient to live off for everyone.  But I really do think there would be societal benefits, and it's worth looking at how such a system could be funded.

[I1L2T3 10]

3 hours ago, Cyclone said:

It's just that I was asking what evidence you'd used to form that opinion...

The unsustainable (and currently unresolvable) situation we are in, within the context of rapid technological change not all of which is positive.

 

The difference is that you believe history will repeat itself. I’m not so certain it will.

[Cyclone 10]

I see no reason it won't, there's nothing special about this technological change compared to the previous ones.