Bochum Parkway speed limit

[WiseOwl182 10]

18 minutes ago, DT Ralge said:

Yes, indeed.   They are anti-car in the sense that they and every other Council are trying to get more of us on foot, on bike and in public transport.  

London leads the way (and others are copying/will copy) with a target of 80% of all private journeys to be (sustainably) on foot, bike or public transport by 2041. 

Nottingham, similarly, nudges behavioural change by charging employers for allowing their employees a parking space at work. 

Etc etc. 

Wake up, it’s not just SCC that are anti-car - that’s just another lazy cliché-ed  beef. 

What about Liverpool then? Leading the way.

[DT Ralge 10]

3 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

What about Liverpool then? Leading the way.

I haven’t read the whole thread so can’t comnent on what they have done in Liverpool (with bus lanes?)

SCC have changed and done away with some bus lanes and have installed others elsewhere.  That’s the nature of stuff: things get modelled, planned, installed, reviewed  and altered.  

What doesn’t change is the direction of travel in population growth,  increased vehicle usage, higher levels of congestion and poorer air quality.   Councils intervene to mitigate the worst effects, sometimes effectively, other times not so effectively. 

Making an “anti-car” claim is simplistic and facile. 

[WiseOwl182 10]

2 minutes ago, DT Ralge said:

I haven’t read the whole thread so can’t comnent on what they have done in Liverpool (with bus lanes?)

SCC have changed and done away with some bus lanes and have installed others elsewhere.  That’s the nature of stuff: things get modelled, planned, installed, reviewed  and altered.  

What doesn’t change is the direction of travel in population growth,  increased vehicle usage, higher levels of congestion and poorer air quality.   Councils intervene to mitigate the worst effects, sometimes effectively, other times not so effectively. 

Making an “anti-car” claim is simplistic and facile. 

Liverpool scrapped all of them for a 9 month trial, I think they had 27 in total. The trial found that for all but 4 bus lanes, bus journeys were not impacted and car journeys were significantly improved. They also found parking in bus lanes was the main cause of bus delays. They reinstated the 4 bus lanes and left all the rest scrapped.

 

That's called real, progressive thinking, giving a real benefit to people's lives, rather than just towing the left wing agenda to virtue signal.

[WiseOwl182 10]

It looks like Coventry have done similar too.

 

"Based on the journey time monitoring undertaken each month since March 2017 evidence shows the suspension of bus lanes under the ETRO has not had a detrimental effect on bus journey times when compared on a like for like basis with bus journey time for the same period in 2016."

 

https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/nine-coventry-bus-lanes-scrapped-14804057

Edited February 17, 2019 by WiseOwl182

[DT Ralge 10]

2 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

Liverpool scrapped all of them for a 9 month trial, I think they had 27 in total. The trial found that for all but 4 bus lanes, bus journeys were not impacted and car journeys were significantly improved. They also found parking in bus lanes was the main cause of bus delays. They reinstated the 4 bus lanes and left all the rest scrapped.

 

That's called real, progressive thinking, giving a real benefit to people's lives, rather than just towing the left wing agenda to virtue signal.

I don’t understand how you can put a left-wing/right-wing slant on the argument.

- I haven’t checked but my guess is that Liverpool counts itself as Labour heartland (MP- and Council-wise)

- all Councils of all political colours face the same problems of congestion, air quality and KSI’s.  In any intervention that they make to deal with one or all of these, there are bound to be “winners and losers” AND what they do today may be undone by a subsequent administration such is the cyclical and pendulum nature of politics, “the art of the possible” - note it is not a science. 

As for virtue signalling - this is a nice but sneery phrase that belittles the aspirations of politicians who set out, we should imagine, to do good.   I haven’t yet given up hoping that someone in power has such aspirations. 

[WiseOwl182 10]

7 minutes ago, DT Ralge said:

I don’t understand how you can put a left-wing/right-wing slant on the argument.

- I haven’t checked but my guess is that Liverpool counts itself as Labour heartland (MP- and Council-wise)

- all Councils of all political colours face the same problems of congestion, air quality and KSI’s.  In any intervention that they make to deal with one or all of these, there are bound to be “winners and losers” AND what they do today may be undone by a subsequent administration such is the cyclical and pendulum nature of politics, “the art of the possible” - note it is not a science. 

As for virtue signalling - this is a nice but sneery phrase that belittles the aspirations of politicians who set out, we should imagine, to do good.   I haven’t yet given up hoping that someone in power has such aspirations. 

Absolutely. I hope Sheffield will follow in the footsteps of Liverpool and Coventry and do good too.

[Foot 10]

9 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

 

Ie. They don't WANT to find the budget because they're anti-car.

It would be a ridiculous waste of money more like.

[WiseOwl182 10]

26 minutes ago, Foot said:

It would be a ridiculous waste of money more like.

Because our council never waste any money at all do they? A hundred grand to modernise a dual carriageway with an artificially low limit would be well spent.

[GleadlessLad 12]

3 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

Because our council never waste any money at all do they? A hundred grand to modernise a dual carriageway with an artificially low limit would be well spent.

Has the necessity to build either a footbridge or subway to safely maintain the existing public right of way - i.e. the pedestrian crossing point near to Mossbrook School - been included in this arbitrary figure of a hundred grand?

[Cyclone 10]

1 hour ago, WiseOwl182 said:

Because our council never waste any money at all do they? A hundred grand to modernise a dual carriageway with an artificially low limit would be well spent.

How have you determined that it would be well spent?  What opportunity costs have you considered?

[Annie Bynnol 612]

49 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

Because our council never waste any money at all do they? A hundred grand to modernise a dual carriageway with an artificially low limit would be well spent.

At last some figures:

 

£100 000  to enable a some road users to do a half mile at 50 mph on the Derbyshire border.

 

Cost of protecting drivers from each other:

@ from "£16 per metre" * for plain Armco the charge would be  £50 000 for car park standard barriers(totally inappropriate to prevent 100 mph collisions)
 

Cost of Armco to protect sides.

Cost of Armco protecting other users from drivers at crossings.

Cost of Armco at junctions.

 

Add cost of:

planning

installation

plant hire

concrete

labour

road closures, diversions, delays

VAT?

etc., etc., etc.

 

Even if it was £100 000  to enable a some road users to do a half mile at 50 mph on the Derbyshire border, the cost would be a ridiculous use of resources for a project that delivers no improvements in terms of capacity or safety. 

At a £million???

 

 

*Armco Barrier Prices

[DT Ralge 10]

2 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

Because our council never waste any money at all do they? A hundred grand to modernise a dual carriageway with an artificially low limit would be well spent.

The truth, of course, is that SCC have much bigger fish to fry (a long list of road/route inprovenent projects more pressing)  and very limited funds that don’t go far enough. 

You’ll have to live with your obvious irritation at being delayed a few moments (or are you driving at 50 anyway with little chance of a speeding ticket?) and get used to the fact that the limit will not increase until they find a budget for the ARMCO even though SCC agree with you that the limit could be 50.