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Overthrowing the government of Venezuela

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16 hours ago, phil752 said:

 

it is not understanding what you wrote , it is do you understand  when people need aid it dose not matter to them where it comes from

It's worth noting that both The Red Cross & the UN are against this US Aid as well.  Also, Maduro has no problem accepting international aid when it’s offered in good faith.  At the beginning of February, The Red Cross doubled its budget to give Aid to Venezuela, and Maduro has no problem accepting that:

 

https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/14315

 

Also, see 'Point 3'  in the above article:  "The person in charge of US operations in Venezuela (Elliott Abrams) has a history of using aid as a cover to deliver weapons to right-wing mercenaries"

 

Neither Maduro, the Red Cross, or the UN want anything to do with this US Aid, as they see it for what it is - highly politicised and obviously hypocritical (the US has harmed Venezuela's economy, contributing to the deaths of Venezuelans, and now  it comes along offering a band aid).  When looking at the issue of Aid being sent by the US, you've also got to take into account their role in Venezuela's problems:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/venezuela-us-sanctions-united-nations-oil-pdvsa-a8748201.html

 

Another thing is, trying to force this aid into Venezuela, as the US seems determined to do, could  turn nasty. There are reports today that U.S. backed Juan Guaido is calling for a million volunteers to help get the aid into the country on Feb 23, and that 600,000 people have already volunteered. If that's true, I don't know, but referring to this: 

 

https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2019/0217/1031069-venezuela-guaido-aid/

 

Both Rubio & Guaido are also saying that on Feb 23, the Venezuelan military,  who so far remain loyal to Maduro, face the biggest choice of their lives; either let the aid in, or remain loyal to Maduro and try to keep it out. 

 

Trump, Pompeo, Abrams, Pence, Rubio, Guaido et al, are aware of the clashes that this could cause (thousands of civilians, verses the Venezuelan military and the Chavista Militia). If such clashes do occur and people are injured, or killed, where might that lead? This is how civil wars begin, and if that happens,  no doubt the pro-Guaido countries and the mainstream media would paint Maduro as the main cause, which would likely be used by the US to push even harder for regime change, and perhaps even to justify military intervention. 

 

Hopefully none of this happens, but what I see so far is that Maduro, and the military who support him, are not backing down, and the US have made it very clear that they won't give up on trying to topple Maduro either.  As Marco Rubio said the other week "There's no escape for Maduro . . . this process we’re on [to get rid of him] is irreversible."

 

Feb 23 will be the day to watch. 

 

 

Edited by FormerSheff

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9 hours ago, phil752 said:

 

it is not understanding what you wrote , it is do you understand  when people need aid it dose not matter to them where it comes from

I am failing to understand your Logic Phil, you seem quite happy for the Americans to put sanctions on Venezuela, causing then severe economical problems and hardship, but then you say Maduro should let the aid in, Maduro  wouldn't need to let aid in if the Americans were not going full out to crush the country like they have done many times with other Latin American countries.

One Latin American country let aid in and it was followed by thousands of American marines, can you not understand why Maduro would not want the Americans getting a foot in the door? surely that cant be hard to understand..

Two questions for you..

1, do you think this is about freedom, democracy and human rights.

2  why do we still trade with Saudi Arabia when they treat their people brutally and publicly cut peoples heads off? why do we not put sanctions on them instead of selling them weapons? 

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At a days-long anti-intervention protest in Caracas, The Grayzone’s Aaron Maté speaks to a Venezuelan teacher about the impact of US sanctions and fears that the Trump administration wants to stoke a civil war.

 

 

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On 17/02/2019 at 09:59, FormerSheff said:

Yes, I made a video about that CNN story, about the "defecting" soldiers.

You obviously know about this, but others here might not. 

So the Youtube channel 'One Ten Thousandth' is yours?

 

You are a big fan of conspiracy theories then? Surprised you haven't posted a video to your channel saying the moon landings were fake and that the Holocaust wasn't real.

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4 minutes ago, the_bloke said:

So the Youtube channel 'One Ten Thousandth' is yours?

 

You are a big fan of conspiracy theories then? Surprised you haven't posted a video to your channel saying the moon landings were fake and that the Holocaust wasn't real.

so are you saying the story of the fake soldiers is a conspiracy theory?

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3 minutes ago, banjodeano said:

so are you saying the story of the fake soldiers is a conspiracy theory?

No, I've not looked into it in detail to make a decision. Or are you suggesting I should believe everything posted by someone who publishes videos that fall for every conspiracy theory going?

 

Don't you find it strange that only blogs, tiny YouTube channels and RT are calling it fake?

 

Is the Washington Post lying about defectors too?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/02/02/what-we-know-about-venezuelan-air-force-general-who-defected-maduros-government/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a4ccfacb2883

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19 hours ago, the_bloke said:

So the Youtube channel 'One Ten Thousandth' is yours?

 

You are a big fan of conspiracy theories then? Surprised you haven't posted a video to your channel saying the moon landings were fake and that the Holocaust wasn't real.

Using the weaponised  term "conspiracy theories" - check.

Following that up with a mention of the moon landings  - check.

And, to top it off, throw in "holocaust denial"  - check.

 

Well done, for lacking any freshness or originality. 

Edited by FormerSheff

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22 minutes ago, the_bloke said:

Are you suggesting I should believe everything posted by someone who publishes videos that fall for every conspiracy theory going?

 

I don't have "every conspiracy theory going" on my channel. Stop generalising. Anyway, the OPs thread is about overthrowing the government of Venezuela, not about my you tube channel. I only posted that video as that was relevant to a previous post that was made, and I feel the point that's been made in that video, not only by me, but by others too, is worth consideration. If you don't agree, then ok. 

22 minutes ago, the_bloke said:

Can't read Washing Post articles, they have a paywall, and I'm not paying. 

Edited by FormerSheff

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25 minutes ago, the_bloke said:

No, I've not looked into it in detail to make a decision. Or are you suggesting I should believe everything posted by someone who publishes videos that fall for every conspiracy theory going?

 

Don't you find it strange that only blogs, tiny YouTube channels and RT are calling it fake?

 

Is the Washington Post lying about defectors too?

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/02/02/what-we-know-about-venezuelan-air-force-general-who-defected-maduros-government/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.a4ccfacb2883

But why are you trying to ridicule Formersheff's post by including  comments about moon landings and that the Holocaust wasn't real?

we were not discussing moon landings and the holocaust, we were discussing the subject of the fake story about the defecting  soldiers, which on the face of it appears to be a load of hogwash, but if you can pull formersheff's video apart and show it to be incorrect then i am here waiting for your evidence

as for the General defecting, that appears to be true, but it is not the mass defection that the Americans were hoping for, perhaps we may just get a full scale invasion by the Americans instead

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2 hours ago, the_bloke said:

Don't you find it strange that only blogs, tiny YouTube channels and RT are calling it fake?

No, I don't find that strange at all.  But I suppose you're implying  that we should remain doubtful about the credibility of such a story,  until a news outlet that you consider more credible covers it,  . .  right? 

 

Edited by FormerSheff

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South America is generally divided in most countries, obviously the rich and the poor  but its a bit more than that....and this is MY OPINION  so no references as its all benn in the news over the last 20 years or so.  Its a matter of remembering., so correct me if I made a mistke, but I like to call a spade a spade.

 

One subject  no one seems to have addressed regarding the problems in Venezuela is the racial divide.  Skin colour divides the nation and is deep in the people's consciousness.  Along with skin colour is the economic divide,  So this issue is common in many South American countries so light skinned people tend to be the top of the social structure and darker skinned people at the bottom, the poor.  So racial background also fuels the class divide in Venezuela. Chavez started to address the  prejudice and discrimination against people of a darker skin colour......the poor.

 

Racism in South America has a long historical heritage,  namely colonialism.  So in  urban situations one finds that the upper and middle class areas,  the skin colour is lighter,  which leaves the less economically prosperous are darker skinned in Venezuela.  So there is a direct relationship  between skin colour and class membership in Venezuela and this helps explain the pro government supporters and the opposition supporters, and the demonstrations we are fed thought out skewed mass media outlets.

 

So how come reporters see just the opposition side of the divide.  Opposition good, light skinned  more educated and  sophisticated  the government darker, not just in skin colour but in governeing ideology,  as well. 

Well lets think about it. 

Where do out unbias reporters stay, where are the hotels in the cities?   Well not in the slums are they!   So they live in bubble within a larger bubble, and the inner one is prosperous, the people are more educated and economically more affluent and lighter skinned.  

 

Prior to the Chavez socialist revolution  the lights had all the wealth and the darks were impoverished, and he changed this dynamic.  He pushed housing education and social welfare and all the stuff that was not there before, the idea was to serve all the people not just a section of the people.  This obviously ****** off the ones that found they were not in control anymore, watching the people worship this devil, who dared to forget the rule of the rod, to now sparing the people from the tyrannical powerful moneyed exploitive class.

 

So lets consider how the USA  views SOCIALISM, and its cousin COMMUNISM.  Well both are the enemy of capitalism, restricting profits, and exploitation as well as the joys of exercising power.   So the lighter skinned, middle and upper classes had an external ally, as both hated this waste of resources to the undeserving poor,  a bit like how benefits are seen in the UK.  Keeping undesirables apart form the airs of sophistication and privileges is seen as a natural order of things, not quite NAZI but definitely closer to a chosen Darwinian interpretation.   In  the USA we have the UNDESIRABLES  who like those who voted fr BREXIT, uneducated, generally poor, unworthy and unsuitable people who should not have been given the vote to begin with.

 

So seeing the internal conflict in Venezuela is really just another natural human conflict, where it about one thing and one thing only. POWER, or in the case of the lighter skinned portion of the population regaining power.  The price for this is to give the USA  the OIL and other natural recourses, and that is also about POWER, as controlling the energy resources allows them to pressurise CHINA, strangling them like Iran, Cuba, Russia and the other few sovereign countries not controlled by the USA    

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