Overthrowing the government of Venezuela

[Marcey 0]

The USA is trying to overthrow the government of another oil rich country.

 

Gee whiz, I bet it's only to help the people!

[Andbreathe 10]

We as a nation are also backing the US stance...as are many other countries...

[the_bloke 17]

Nice to see you made a new account just for that.

 

Apparently 'malnutrition' has been banned from being used as a reason for death in Venezuela since 2016. Why is that?

[melthebell 862]

I'm torn over it, anarchist and socialist friends of mine are also decrying it, But........ what i have read about it, the current leader is what could be termed a dictator? who is clinging to power?

It will go down as one of the big anti western conspiracy theories i imagine though, where everything we read or see or hear on western media is put there so we dont know the real reason. 

[Broakham 10]

3 hours ago, Marcey said:

The USA is trying to overthrow the government of another oil rich country.

 

Gee whiz, I bet it's only to help the people!

It certainly sounds like they need someone to help them. It doesn't sound like their fraternal socialist comrades around the world are doing much to help.

[Phanerothyme 12]

7 hours ago, melthebell said:

I'm torn over it, anarchist and socialist friends of mine are also decrying it, But........ what i have read about it, the current leader is what could be termed a dictator? who is clinging to power?

It will go down as one of the big anti western conspiracy theories i imagine though, where everything we read or see or hear on western media is put there so we dont know the real reason. 

Venezuela is in trouble, and US/European intervention isn't going to help matters. The US has been trying to overturn Chavez' Bolivarian revolution since it happened. It's a pity Chavez and Maduro turned out to be utter twunts, because the early years of Chavez' rule were marked by many progressive improvements, as well as plenty of dictator like behaviour.

When your leaders starts broadcasting 5 hour speeches to the population on public TV, you know they have to go.

But it seems the right to self-determination has been trumped (yes) by the right to try and snap up bargain oil reserves.

No-one comes out of it looking good, as per...

 

[Marcey 0]

18 hours ago, the_bloke said:

Nice to see you made a new account just for that.

I don't know what you are talking about.

 

18 hours ago, the_bloke said:

Apparently 'malnutrition' has been banned from being used as a reason for death in Venezuela since 2016. Why is that?

Banned by who? What actual evidence do you have for this claim?

 

18 hours ago, melthebell said:

... what i have read about it, the current leader is what could be termed a dictator? who is clinging to power?

Maduro was democratically elected last year. The opposition boycotted the election. Presumably because they knew they would lose. Western leaders always claim that elections are fraudulent when they don't go they way the western powers want them to. They don't have any evidence of election fraud that I have seen.

 

18 hours ago, melthebell said:

It will go down as one of the big anti western conspiracy theories i imagine though, where everything we read or see or hear on western media is put there so we dont know the real reason. 

Agreed. It's well known now that western media is riddled with stories placed there by the state intelligence services (see operation mockingbird). Anyone who challenges these fake stories is called a conspiracy theorist to try and get people to ignore them. 

 

16 hours ago, Broakham said:

It certainly sounds like they need someone to help them. It doesn't sound like their fraternal socialist comrades around the world are doing much to help.

The only help they need is for western powers to leave them alone. We could start by not sanctioning them. Effectively the sanctions are placing the country under siege and that goes a long way towards explaining why there are shortages. Then we could give them back the billion pounds worth of gold that they foolishly deposited at the bank of England that we're refusing to give them back.

 

11 hours ago, Phanerothyme said:

Venezuela is in trouble, and US/European intervention isn't going to help matters. The US has been trying to overturn Chavez' Bolivarian revolution since it happened.

Agreed.

 

11 hours ago, Phanerothyme said:

It's a pity Chavez and Maduro turned out to be utter twunts, because the early years of Chavez' rule were marked by many progressive improvements, as well as plenty of dictator like behaviour.

I don't agree that Chavez rule was marked by dictator like behaviour. Can you provide some examples?

 

Progressive improvements and dictator like behaviour seem to be antithetical to one another. Chavez democratized the country, democratized the oil industry and instituted a new constitution that was widely popular. The only repression that occurred during Chavez's term was during the coup attempt in 2002 when Chavez was kidnapped and coup plotter Pedro Carmona declared himself president and was running the country. Pedro Carmona ordered the police to shoot Chavez supporters before loosing control due to a popular uprising in support of Chavez. Chavez was reinstated as president and Pedro Carmo was forced to flee the country. That's the only dictator like behaviour I can find.

 

11 hours ago, Phanerothyme said:

When your leaders starts broadcasting 5 hour speeches to the population on public TV, you know they have to go.
 

Sorry, why is that?

 

 

[alchresearch 214]

17 minutes ago, Marcey said:

Banned by who? What actual evidence do you have for this claim?

New York Times for one. 

 

Quote

Doctors are censored in hospitals, too, often warned not to include malnutrition in children’s medical records.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/12/17/world/americas/venezuela-children-starving.html

 

I'm sure there are more if you Google "venezuela banned malnutrition" like I did.

 

Anyway, as you're a new user, welcome to the forum. Which part of Sheffield are you from and what brought you to this site?

Edited January 31, 2019 by alchresearch

[Phanerothyme 12]

53 minutes ago, Marcey said:

 

I don't agree that Chavez rule was marked by dictator like behaviour. Can you provide some examples?

 

Progressive improvements and dictator like behaviour seem to be antithetical to one another.

 

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by Phanerothyme

[sheffbag 227]

Send Owen Jones over, he'll sort it out as he loves Ven so much

[Marcey 0]

2 hours ago, alchresearch said:

New York Times for one.

The fact that the NYT is one of the media outlets riddled with propagandists (as discussed earlier) notwithstanding, the claims in that article rest on the testimony of one man. Dr. Huníades Urbina, Assuming he has no axe to grind, he's undermining his own argument that doctors are not allowed to discuss malnutrition, by discussing malnutrition with journalists from the NYT. Presumably whatever warnings he had were not very credible because he did it anyway.

 

2 hours ago, alchresearch said:

I'm sure there are more if you Google "venezuela banned malnutrition" like I did.

You know I did exactly that and found the article you shared and then I dismissed it myself for the reasons I just gave. You shouldn't believe everything you read in the papers. Do you have any real evidence and not just anecdotal, self contradictory claims by someone who may or may not have an agenda. posted in a propaganda rag that definitely does have a pro-western agenda? How about an official and verified document from the Venezuelan government given to doctors warning them not to talk about malnutrition? If you are going to ban something, you need to put that in writing and tell everybody it's banned. Did they do that?

 

In any case I've already proposed that the shortages of food are directly related to US sanctions and not the result of economic mismanagement on the part of the Venezuelan government. If they are indeed trying (and failing) to cover up the extent of the problem, there could be all sorts of legitimate reasons for that. Preventing panic buying or raising the morale of citizens for example. Recall that during the world wars, the British and American governments propagandised their citizens also. This is admitted. The whole point of this thread is to show that they are still pushing propaganda, beating the war drums in regards to Venezuela. Your argument against needs to be more than simply "See...look...look what it says about Venezuela in the propaganda...see!"

 

2 hours ago, alchresearch said:

Anyway, as you're a new user, welcome to the forum. Which part of Sheffield are you from and what brought you to this site?

Thank you. I came to this site to raise awareness about the situation in Venezuela and to give my own opinion that it's another oil rich country being targeted for regime change by the oil hungry USA. It's nice of you to enquire about where in Sheffield I am from but you should know it's unwise to reveal too much information about yourself to strangers on the internet.

Edited January 31, 2019 by Marcey

[the_bloke 17]

1 hour ago, Marcey said:

You shouldn't believe everything you read in the papers. Do you have any real evidence and not just anecdotal, self contradictory claims by someone who may or may not have an agenda.

Likewise, I have no reason to believe anything you say with your pro socialist pro dictatorship agenda.