The Consequences of Brexit [Part 6] READ FIRST POST BEFORE COMMENTING

[Top Cats Hat 10]

7 minutes ago, RJRB said:

Can anyone explain to me how a time limit can be set and limited for the so called backstop.

If it is applied because agreement cannot be reached,surely it must remain effective until these differences are settled.(which on the evidence so far could be years).

If this is the main issue holding up a deal,then it seems to me it requires either the wisdom of Solomon or the cunning of Edmund Blackadder to solve the problem.

 

Actually it is cunningly simple.

 

The North of Ireland remains in a customs union identical to the one in the South and the problem of the border, and therefore the backstop, disappears completely. To do this May only needs to stand up to the cranks, racists and religious fanatics of the DUP  and a handful of crackpot right wing Tories and Kate Hoey, who would be the only ones objecting to it.

 

The DUP calls the bluff of the government but May knows that at the end of the day the DUP fears a pro-United Ireland Corbyn government more than anything else so tells the DUP to do one. The removal of the backstop (and the fear of remaining in a perpetual union) convinces 40-50 Tory MPs (and mayber 10-15 Labour MPs) to support May's deal and now the DUP can go whistle as they are no longer needed to make up the numbers.

 

See? Not that hard really! 😀

[Car Boot 10]

1 hour ago, ez8004 said:

What incentives are you going to give to HSBC which turns over $51bn/year to move away from their home?  Cheap rates?  REALLY?

Is the home of HSBC London or Hong Kong?

 

Do we really want a bank that was fined $765 million for selling toxic loans in the run up to the financial crash?  It was also fined £1.4 billion for letting Mexican cocaine gangs launder money through its banking system. Along with other banks which supported and funded the Remain campaign (Royal Bank of Scotland, Citibank, JPMorgan Chase and UBS to name just a few) HSBC paid fines that totalled £2 billion for rigging the markets which deal with foreign exchange.

 

Instead of giving incentives to the likes of HSBC, we should be financially crippling and closing down such obscene capitalist operations and jailing it's executives.

Edited January 21, 2019 by Car Boot

[phil752 10]

4 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Is a Nigerean nurse, Dutch care worker, Spanish vet or German consultant paid any less then their English equivalent?

you are mixing thing up as you do. Nurses  no, care workers do the Dutch come here for that? Spanish or east European vets yes they do for our food factories and get paid less than our counterparts.  German doctors come here on temp relief contracts cos we pay a lot more, mostly on weekends, guess why  our doctors are not willing to work weekends.

[Lex Luthor 10]

14 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

Indeed it will. A trade deal will involve 500k with visas on a yearly basis heading this way. I’d guess most will educated, English speaking, hungry for work and sending money back home.

That's fine by me. 

 

8 hours ago, ez8004 said:

  So will calling you a fascist seem unreasonable?

 

 

Be careful the only leave protest to appear on the news involved an arrest for use of that word. 

8 hours ago, Longcol said:

When the number of people employed in the UK is at its highest ever level and unemployment is at its lowest rate since the early 70's, which UK citizens are being done out of a job?

 

Are UK citizens in pockets of high employment - like Belfast and Middlesbrough really going to move to the SE of England for jobs?

 

Oh come on, you're cleverer than that.  Zero hours and forcing people on to crappy schemes and in to temporary positions and regular sanctioning to help massage figures are not jobs. 

 

8 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

Employment stats can hide things but even accepting that, there's still hundreds of thousands out of work. We're often told how we need immigration for the NHS. Why can't we do more to train up UK citizens as the doctors and nurses we need? Importing labour should be a last resort, not a default.

 

Given that we are enjoying such high employment levels under a Conservative government, I trust you won't be risking it by voting for Labour?

Because training our citizens in this country costs money, so it's cheaper to rob poorer countries of their valuable educated workforce. 

8 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

I didn't. A recently released long term study did.

 

That is the problem with dog whistle slogans, populism and living in a bubble. When a credible study shows something which contradicts the nonsense you see endlessly repeated on facebook, in the Daily Mail and on UKIP posters you don't say ' that is interesting I must rethink my position!' you say 'you can't be serious.'

 

The reason that there is a shortage of social housing, health and education provision is not because of those bad immigrants it is because we live in a society which puts the interests of the rich and powerful above those of the rest of society.

 

Give your head a wobble and stop the lazy thinking.

 

 

Actually, it's both - not 'bad immigrants', as you put it, but unmanaged immigration. 

8 hours ago, Longcol said:

Because the government won't pay for it - it is cheaper to poach people trained abroad. 

 

And are, say, redundant steelworkers from Middlesbrough really going to retrain as nurses?

Why the hell not?   If they were supported financially by our excuse for a government. 

 

7 hours ago, Cyclone said:

You know that we're going to be massively worse off after leaving.  We'll have LESS money.  Not even brexidiots are denying that anymore.

Classy. 

 

5 hours ago, ez8004 said:

People can't be this stupid or can they?

What?  To believe a SKYnews poll?.... Apparently. 

[Vaati 11]

Merged 5 posts in a row. The edit button should work for 24 hours.  Please do not multipost.

[ez8004 10]

5 hours ago, Car Boot said:

Is the home of HSBC London or Hong Kong?

 

Do we really want a bank that was fined $765 million for selling toxic loans in the run up to the financial crash?  It was also fined £1.4 billion for letting Mexican cocaine gangs launder money through its banking system. Along with other banks which supported and funded the Remain campaign (Royal Bank of Scotland, Citibank, JPMorgan Chase and UBS to name just a few) HSBC paid fines that totalled £2 billion for rigging the markets which deal with foreign exchange.

 

Instead of giving incentives to the likes of HSBC, we should be financially crippling and closing down such obscene capitalist operations and jailing it's executives.

HSBC is a BRITISH bank. Let me make it simple for you. Its headquarters is at HSBC Tower, 8 Canada Square in Canary Wharf. You know, in LONDON. Get your facts right first. When you start a reply like that and it’s wrong, the rest of your post looks silly. 

 

So you want to get rid of 45k jobs in the UK? And what about the millions of people who depend on their services? Who shall we use instead? HSBC along with other financial institutions were guilty of many things but they were punished appropriately. You could say the same about the likes of Rolls-Royce. Shall we close down them too at the cost of thousands of jobs?

[Lex Luthor 10]

1 hour ago, Groose said:

Merged 5 posts in a row. The edit button should work for 24 hours.  Please do not multipost.

Sorry, I thought this new format was supposed to be an improvement, the old format merged posts automatically.  I've no idea how to multi quote, as I wrote earlier in the thread. 

[ez8004 10]

2 hours ago, Lex Luthor said:

Be careful the only leave protest to appear on the news involved an arrest for use of that word. 

 

Oh come on, you're cleverer than that.  Zero hours and forcing people on to crappy schemes and in to temporary positions and regular sanctioning to help massage figures are not jobs. 

Was the MP being called a fascist for quoting a National Front slogan like WiseOwl was? She didn’t. He is. So it is a reasonable question. 

 

Funny you you should mention zero hour contracts. It was EU legislation that was enshrined into U.K. law that was primarily created to protect this group. The law gave people doing unregular hours protection by giving additional holiday payments based on an average of daily hours worked over a year. This applies even to me since the way the law is worded and it effectively gives me an extra 7% of my annual salary. 

Edited January 21, 2019 by ez8004

[Cyclone 10]

6 hours ago, Car Boot said:

Is the home of HSBC London or Hong Kong?

 

Do we really want a bank that was fined $765 million for selling toxic loans in the run up to the financial crash?  It was also fined £1.4 billion for letting Mexican cocaine gangs launder money through its banking system. Along with other banks which supported and funded the Remain campaign (Royal Bank of Scotland, Citibank, JPMorgan Chase and UBS to name just a few) HSBC paid fines that totalled £2 billion for rigging the markets which deal with foreign exchange.

 

Instead of giving incentives to the likes of HSBC, we should be financially crippling and closing down such obscene capitalist operations and jailing it's executives.

So HSBC would move to HK entirely, at best you might shut down it's UK retail arm.

You'd put 10,000+ people in the UK out of work, and you'd lose the huge tax payment that HSBC makes.

You'd also scare every other large financial institution into leaving as well, taking their jobs and their tax payments with them.

 

You'd be hard pressed to find a single more self destructive act you could possibly do to our economy.

[Lex Luthor 10]

1 hour ago, ez8004 said:

Was the MP being called a fascist for quoting a National Front slogan like WiseOwl was? She didn’t. He is. So it is a reasonable question. 

 

Funny you you should mention zero hour contracts. It was EU legislation that was enshrined into U.K. law that was primarily created to protect this group. The law gave people doing unregular hours protection by giving additional holiday payments based on an average of daily hours worked over a year. This applies even to me since the way the law is worded and it effectively gives me an extra 7% of my annual salary. 

Both points, same answer: I have never said anything to the contrary.  But quoting Gordon Brown doesn't make the poster a fascist, hard luck, try a different insult, you seem to have an array of them. 

 

Do you know what Soubry said on live TV the morning the referendum result was delivered?  That it was people in the North who did this who didn't like immigrants and who had never even seen an immigrant.   That tells me all I need to know about her. 

 

I'm my book, choosing to serve and be a member of a ruling party that knowingly deliberately and consistently flouts the international Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities and intimidates, bullies and degredates them is actually pretty much akin to fascism though. 

Edited January 21, 2019 by Lex Luthor

[I1L2T3 10]

5 hours ago, phil752 said:

you are mixing thing up as you do. Nurses  no, care workers do the Dutch come here for that? Spanish or east European vets yes they do for our food factories and get paid less than our counterparts.  German doctors come here on temp relief contracts cos we pay a lot more, mostly on weekends, guess why  our doctors are not willing to work weekends.

That’s only part of it. A lot of my wife’s colleagues are doctors from the EU. My wife is from the EU as well and has now done around 30 years in the NHS.

 

There are workers from the EU in practically all roles in the NHS.

26 minutes ago, Lex Luthor said:

Both points, same answer: I have never said anything to the contrary.  But quoting Gordon Brown doesn't make the poster a fascist, hard luck, try a different insult, you seem to have an array of them. 

 

Do you know what Soubry said on live TV the morning the referendum result was delivered?  That it was people in the North who did this who didn't like immigrants and who had never even seen an immigrant.   That tells me all I need to know about her. 

 

I'm my book, choosing to serve and be a member of a ruling party that knowingly deliberately and consistently flouts the international Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities and intimidates, bullies and degredates them is actually pretty much akin to fascism though. 

Well she was correct that a lot of constituencies in the north with high percentages of white British people did vote to leave.

 

Are you disputing that

 

Soubry is a curious politician. Her voting record in many areas is in support of things that harm sections of our society. But on the EU she has read the 48% and understood the issues with leaving probably better than any other politician

[Lex Luthor 10]

17 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

 

Well she was correct that a lot of constituencies in the north with high percentages of white British people did vote to leave.

 

Are you disputing that

 

Soubry is a curious politician. Her voting record in many areas is in support of things that harm sections of our society. But on the EU she has read the 48% and understood the issues with leaving probably better than any other politician

That's not what she said though.  I told you what she said.  It is OK for her to tar the whole north of the country with the slur of being ignorant racists but she takes exception to being called a fascist when she props up a government that preys on the poor and the disabled?   

 

People in the North haven't even seen an immigrant?  She is obviously clueless.   If that is a demonstration of a better understanding of the issues surrounding Brexit than most politicians, then heaven help us. 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2019 by Lex Luthor