The Consequences of Brexit [Part 6] READ FIRST POST BEFORE COMMENTING

[Top Cats Hat 10]

24 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

rather than import cheap labour.

Is a Nigerean nurse, Dutch care worker, Spanish vet or German consultant paid any less then their English equivalent?

[I1L2T3 10]

1 hour ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Why does there have to be?

 

Infrastructure and resources cost money. Immigrants make a net financial contribution to our economy so there is more money in the pot than there would be without then. So if there is a shortage of resources that is down to decisions made by sucessive governments, not the immigrants.

 

Blaming immigrants for the failing of governments is a tried and tested technique. Hitler did very well out of it until he decided to declare war on the rest of the world.

It’s a choice by government not to provide the infrastructure. It doesn’t have to make that choice.

 

Osborne did so deliberately 2010-13 when he took a hatchet to infrastructure spending, just at the point when we were still trying to recover from the catastrophic Labour decision not to impose limits on immigration from East European EU accession countries.

 

There’s a reason I’ll never vote Tory, and Labour lost my vote. Both took huge gambles and both played fast and loose with our country and our economy. The LibDems are implicated too.

 

All have neglected the need for sustainable development and sustainable society

[Longcol 604]

8 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

Why Middlesbrough? I'm saying spread the jobs throughout the UK, not just in London. I'm also saying train up our own young people, rather than import cheap labour.

Middlesbrough - an example area of high employment but low immigration - so locals not done out of jobs by immigrants - and given a large number of jobs were in the steel industry probably easier for a lot of Sheffield folk to relate to.

 

How do we spread jobs around the country outside the public sector? The huge number of jobs in catering / hospitality etc in London isn't going to magically relocate to unemployment hotspots.  I'd be more than happy to increase money spent on education and training - unfortunately the Tories prefer the austerity agenda..

 

 

[I1L2T3 10]

6 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Is a Nigerean nurse, Dutch care worker, Spanish vet or German consultant paid any less then their English equivalent?

IT workers on visas from India are paid a lot less than their EU/U.K. counterparts.

 

Part of the ongoing corporate visa scam. Thankfully the EU does keep a lid on it to an extent.

 

The minute we sign a trade deal with India it will get far worse, because a key demand from India is hundreds of thousands more visas. Per year.

 

Once that constant massively increased stream of Indian IT graduates starts arriving it will destroy the need for in house training at IT firms.

 

Like I said many times the plan is to throw U.K. workers into direct competition with basically the whole world.

 

Edited January 20, 2019 by I1L2T3

[Top Cats Hat 10]

2 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

All have neglected the need for sustainable development and sustainable society

So I shall repeat my point.

 

If immigration adds more money to the pot and we are now agreed that it is successive governments that have refused to invest in society, how has immigration made the situation worse?

 

Without immigration successive government would have even less money to not spend on schools, hospitals, housing etc.

[WiseOwl182 10]

10 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Is a Nigerean nurse, Dutch care worker, Spanish vet or German consultant paid any less then their English equivalent?

Yes in totality, as Longcol pointed out (and it was his phrase I was pointing back at him) because, although the pay will be the same, the UK didn't have to bear the original training costs.

[I1L2T3 10]

Just now, Top Cats Hat said:

So I shall repeat my point.

 

If immigration adds more money to the pot and we are now agreed that it is successive governments that have refused to invest in society, how has immigration made the situation worse?

 

Without immigration successive government would have even less money to not spend on schools, hospitals, housing etc.

I’m not disagreeing. The point I’m making is governments haven’t done it.

 

The fact they haven’t invested has unfairly led to immigrants taking the blame for stretched infrastructure.

 

If government make decisions that lead to huge net increases in migration then governments should be making concomitant improvements to infrastructure. And yes the net fiscal benefits from migration should support that.

 

The obvious next point is neither May’s deal or no deal offer any hope of that happening.

Just now, WiseOwl182 said:

Yes in totality, as Longcol pointed out (and it was his phrase I was pointing back at him) because, although the pay will be the same, the UK didn't have to bear the original training costs.

Like I said this doesn’t happen in IT. Indian staff on one year visas are on peanuts for doing the same work. I’ll be at work with a bunch of them in the morning.

[WiseOwl182 10]

2 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

 

Like I said this doesn’t happen in IT. Indian staff on one year visas are on peanuts for doing the same work. I’ll be at work with a bunch of them in the morning.

I was talking about healthcare staff and EU migration but there is a wider issue. Your example goes further, although not related to EU membership.

[I1L2T3 10]

3 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

I was talking about healthcare staff and EU migration but there is a wider issue. Your example goes further, although not related to EU membership.

It is related in a way because EU membership caps the numbers, in IT anyway

[WiseOwl182 10]

3 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

It is related in a way because EU membership caps the numbers, in IT anyway

UK law could be changed to cap them at a lower level. I'm not saying it will be, but it could be.

[I1L2T3 10]

3 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

UK law could be changed to cap them at a lower level. I'm not saying it will be, but it could be.

It’s unlikely. I can’t be bothered digging it out right now but Indian government is already on the record as stating that an increased number of visas is a condition of a trade deal. A desperate UK government could cave in to excessive demands. Multiply again and again and again for every trade deal we sign.

 

The EU is actually protecting us from such an onslaught right now. It’s not just IT but finance, legal and any other profession could be ripped apart.

 

Rees-Mogg, Fox etc.. show no signs of wanting to protect British workers from this. Quite the opposite: Fox is on record about stripping away employment and human rights, and protections around pay and conditions.

 

We have absolutely every right to be worried about what is approaching

 

I wish people would wake up to it

[Longcol 604]

8 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

UK law could be changed to cap them at a lower level. I'm not saying it will be, but it could be.

Like we "could" stop outsourcing call centre jobs to India - but don't hold your breath - especially if we have to negotiate a trade deal directly with India.