The Consequences of Brexit [Part 6] READ FIRST POST BEFORE COMMENTING

[WiseOwl182 10]

1 minute ago, Longcol said:

When the number of people employed in the UK is at its highest ever level and unemployment is at its lowest rate since the early 70's, which UK citizens are being done out of a job?

 

 

Employment stats can hide things but even accepting that, there's still hundreds of thousands out of work. We're often told how we need immigration for the NHS. Why can't we do more to train up UK citizens as the doctors and nurses we need? Importing labour should be a last resort, not a default.

 

Given that we are enjoying such high employment levels under a Conservative government, I trust you won't be risking it by voting for Labour?

[Top Cats Hat 10]

10 minutes ago, ANGELFIRE1 said:

How do you arrive at a "negligible effect",   because as John McEnroe used to say "you cannot be serious".

I didn't. A recently released long term study did.

 

That is the problem with dog whistle slogans, populism and living in a bubble. When a credible study shows something which contradicts the nonsense you see endlessly repeated on facebook, in the Daily Mail and on UKIP posters you don't say ' that is interesting I must rethink my position!' you say 'you can't be serious.'

 

The reason that there is a shortage of social housing, health and education provision is not because of those bad immigrants it is because we live in a society which puts the interests of the rich and powerful above those of the rest of society.

 

Give your head a wobble and stop the lazy thinking.

 

 

[WiseOwl182 10]

6 minutes ago, Longcol said:

 

 

Are UK citizens in pockets of high employment - like Belfast and Middlesbrough really going to move to the SE of England for jobs?

 

 

How about moving jobs out of the south east of England? The economy is far too London centric. Better transport links and tax breaks needed to spread things out more, rather than have the ridiculous situation of a completely over crowded south east where people commute for hours standing on packed trains to get to jobs in offices that could really be based anywhere.

[I1L2T3 10]

7 minutes ago, Longcol said:

When the number of people employed in the UK is at its highest ever level and unemployment is at its lowest rate since the early 70's, which UK citizens are being done out of a job?

 

Are UK citizens in pockets of high employment - like Belfast and Middlesbrough really going to move to the SE of England for jobs?

 

We have structural issues with tenure of, and quality of employment.

 

We also have self-created skills shortages in key areas

 

Both issues are the result of neoliberal policies, and May’s Brexit (Or no deal) offers no solution to either

[Longcol 604]

1 minute ago, WiseOwl182 said:

Employment stats can hide things but even accepting that, there's still hundreds of thousands out of work. We're often told how we need immigration for the NHS. Why can't we do more to train up UK citizens as the doctors and nurses we need? Importing labour should be a last resort, not a default.

 

 

Because the government won't pay for it - it is cheaper to poach people trained abroad. 

 

And are, say, redundant steelworkers from Middlesbrough really going to retrain as nurses?

[I1L2T3 10]

1 minute ago, WiseOwl182 said:

 

How about moving jobs out of the south east of England? The economy is far too London centric. Better transport links and tax breaks needed to spread things out more, rather than have the ridiculous situation of a completely over crowded south east where people commute for hours standing on packed trains to get to jobs in offices that could really be based anywhere.

Again a Brexit led by Rees-Mogg etc... will not deliver any of that

 

 

[WiseOwl182 10]

5 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

 

 

Both issues are the result of neoliberal policies, and May’s Brexit (Or no deal) offers no solution to either

Would you not say that the EU itself is a neoliberal, globalist project?

4 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

Again a Brexit led by Rees-Mogg etc... will not deliver any of that

 

 

I never said it would, but then again neither has the EU.

4 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Because the government won't pay for it - it is cheaper to poach people trained abroad. 

 

And are, say, redundant steelworkers from Middlesbrough really going to retrain as nurses?

So instead of investing in our people, we poach people from abroad to do the jobs instead because it's cheaper, and then call our people thick when they cry foul? Ok.

Edited January 20, 2019 by WiseOwl182

[Top Cats Hat 10]

12 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

I’m a remainer but I do take issue with the idea that excess immigration has no adverse impact on housing, services, infrastructure. There is an adverse impact. There has to be.

Why does there have to be?

 

Infrastructure and resources cost money. Immigrants make a net financial contribution to our economy so there is more money in the pot than there would be without then. So if there is a shortage of resources that is down to decisions made by sucessive governments, not the immigrants.

 

Blaming immigrants for the failing of governments is a tried and tested technique. Hitler did very well out of it until he decided to declare war on the rest of the world.

[RJRB 688]

The vast majority of immigrants are here legally and sanctioned by successive post war governments for various valid reasons.

Even if this did impose a load on housing,schools NHS etc.,then this is entirely down to a lack of investment by the self same politicians that you trust for the future.

Controlled immigration is to be welcomed provided it is backed by providing all the services that we can afford and deserve.

Its a question of priorities and we could start by scrapping HS 2.

[Cyclone 10]

Yorkshire has lots of people willing to work for less than people from Surrey.  So what's the difference?

 

Would wages rise, or would the work simply go to another country?  Is there actually any evidence that immigrants suppress wages? 

5 minutes ago, RJRB said:

The vast majority of immigrants are here legally and sanctioned by successive post war governments for various valid reasons.

Even if this did impose a load on housing,schools NHS etc.,then this is entirely down to a lack of investment by the self same politicians that you trust for the future.

Controlled immigration is to be welcomed provided it is backed by providing all the services that we can afford and deserve.

Its a question of priorities and we could start by scrapping HS 2.

It's very well established that immigration to the UK makes a net contribution to the economy, so the taxes paid more than compensate for the services used.  If the government doesn't use those taxes to improve services, well, that's a policy decision by the government, not an inherent problem of immigration.

[Longcol 604]

13 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

So instead of investing in our people, we poach people from abroad to do the jobs instead because it's cheaper, and then call our people thick when they cry foul? Ok.

Who is calling anybody thick - a Middlesbrough ex-steelworker is highly unlikely to have the qualifications or skills required to re-train as a nurse - or the inclination - Sheffield hospitals are hardly full of ex-steelworkers who retrained to be nurses.

[melthebell 864]

Spending on training has been on the slide in the UK for decades under numerous governments, Infact ironically a lot of our funding for training over the past 2/3 come from the EU

 

cue it appearing on the side of a bus shortly

 

im also sure it will take just as long to get it all back up to speed too

Edited January 20, 2019 by melthebell