The Consequences of Brexit [Part 6] READ FIRST POST BEFORE COMMENTING

[Baron99 779]

According to to the 'i' newspaper today, the SNP are now working on a timetable for a 2nd Independence referendum in the wake of May's Brexit defeat. 

 

Good look to the on that one & I hope they get what they want.  It'll also take a few million more Remainers out of the vote of any possible future EU referendum. 

[woodview 10]

4 minutes ago, L00b said:

I disagree.

 

Remainers are certainly a homogenous group, relative to Brexiters: their base common denominator is the status quo of EU membership, whether augmented by Cameron's wins of February 2016 or not.

 

The Brexiters group, as a whole, exhibits fundamental (with some mutually-incompatible-)  divergeances as to what Brexit means: you can't get a free pass on 'out of the EU' as a common base common denominator for that group, because poll data for the past 2 years, and Parliament's vote about the WA (which happens to install a pretty hard Brexit, relative to EEA/EFTA models).

Remained aren't homogenous. Their reasons for staying vary wildly from being in fundamental agreement with the concept, right through to don't know but Osborne said anything else will put my tax up.

Leavers range from fundamentally opposed to don't like Junker.

Either way, it's borderline acedemic.

Pragmatically something has to be agreed.

Somewhat to disdain, I'm proposing a consensus approach. If I knew how or cba, I'd c+p posts where I've said the same months back.

[L00b 441]

9 minutes ago, woodview said:

Remained aren't homogenous. Their reasons for staying vary wildly from being in fundamental agreement with the concept, right through to don't know but Osborne said anything else will put my tax up.

They certainly are in the context of consensus-building about Brexit outcomes: by definition, they as a group want the least possible divergeance relative to EU membership, if EU membership cannot hold.

 

Whence the most you'd get, is Remainers ready to support an EEA-grade Brexit for the sake of respecting the referendum majority result. Like I1L2T3 herein.

 

How much of the Brexit group would support that level of Brexiting?

 

And how much do you bet the next reply or two after this post will be 'EEA is not Brexiting', whether by an ignorant or an educated globalist/disaster capitalist?

 

Leavers can't realistically seek consensus with Remainers: they don't have all the same hymn sheet to start with, by far.

Edited January 17, 2019 by L00b

[Obelix 11]

5 minutes ago, L00b said:

They certainly are in the context of consensus-building about Brexit outcomes: by definition, they as a group want the least possible divergeance relative to EU membership, if EU membership cannot hold.

 

Whence the most you'd get, is Remainers ready to support an EEA-grade Brexit for the sake of respecting the referendum majority result. Like I1L2T3 herein.

 

How much of the Brexit group would support that level of Brexiting?

 

And how much do you bet the next reply or two after this post will be 'EEA is not Brexiting', whether by an ignorant or an educated globalist/disaster capitalist?

 

Leavers can't realistically seek consensus with Remainers: they don't have all the same hymn sheet to start with, by far.

I'll oblige by saying EEA rules is not Remaining.

[RJRB 688]

55 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

I  support the result of the democratic EU democratic result being honoured and respected.  I support Parliament honouring the legislation they have passed since the democratic EU referendum result.  Parliament voted in favour of triggering Article 50 knowing the default position was that the UK leave the EU without  a deal, if no Withdrawal Agreement is agreed.  I am not in favour of goalposts being moved in order to cheat Leave voters out of their democratic wish.

Fair enough.

So let’s go with a People’s Vote so that the whole population can compare the Leave or Remain options that are on the table.

It is no good blaming Remainers for the deadlock.

You won the vote,now you must unite around a viable option.

If this is to be No Deal then it would be so contentious, that it must be compared with sticking with the status quo.

I will go along with the many Brexit voters who say that they know exactly why they opted to leave.

What is evident is that these are their own reasons and represent a whole host of disparate views.

This is why there is no one capable of uniting this camp and progressing the cause.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

21 minutes ago, woodview said:

Leavers range from fundamentally opposed to don't like Junker.

Let's be honest, until three or four years ago, many Leave voters neither knew nor cared what the EU was. There was no public clamour to leave and the issue only concerned the right of the Conservative Party and the far right. What UKIP cleverly did was blur the lines between EU and non-EU immigration and offered leaving the EU as a way to put an end to all immigration regardless of whether it was from Bulgaria or Bangladesh. At the same time they created a bureaucratic bogeyman that was imposing laws on us and 'telling us what to do.'  Blue passports and bendy bananas were just devices to increase either anger or sentimentality.

 

The only homogenous group of Leave supporters are those on the political extremes who have been wanting an exit for decades. What the rest want depends on what they think they were promised in the run up to the referendum.

 

There are almost as many ideas about what Brexit should be as there were Brexit voters.

 

Remain is pretty much one aspiration and differences of opinion are minor.

[DnAuK 10]

Interesting reading from the Guardian

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/17/semi-brexit-england-wales-leaving-eu-solution

 

Quote - "A semi-Brexit, with just England and Wales leaving the EU, is the solution"

 

I don't pretend to understand all of this, but it seems there is precedent for it. And I have seen signs of this being quoted before in the job I do. But if it was realistic, why has it not been mentioned before i wonder?

[woodview 10]

20 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

 

Remain is pretty much one aspiration and differences of opinion are minor.

I don't think so. It depends a lot on your circle of experience.

Many of my friends voted remain. They don't hold the opinions or attitudes you show in here. They are open about leaving in an orderly fashion.

I also know many leave voters. They aren't bendy banana racists.

Both sets can sit at work or in the pub and see the pros and cons of both. I've never heard the terms brexitremist, or Remoaner apart from in forums.

There are a few avid posters in here who don't fit that of course.

If you and Penistone sat together, you wouldn't come to a compromise solution.

If I sat with a Remain voting colleague I probably would.

I respect your strong belief in the EU, but also acknowledge many don't share that view.

Had Cameron done a better job a few years back, I and many others may have voted Remain.

Those things didn't happen.

Now, a way of leaving or even remaining that satisfies as many people's views as possible needs to be found.

That should have been going on for 2 years, but unfortunately I haven't taken power yet to oversee that process.

[I1L2T3 10]

2 hours ago, mafya said:

Stop calling me a liar when I’m relaying what I have read!

this is where it says they won’t negotiate = https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/brexit-michel-barnier-dominic-raab_uk_5b7c3c14e4b07295150d78c2

They said they have gone as far as they can given May’s red lines.

 

That does not mean they are unwilling to negotiate if the red lines are softer softened

Edited January 17, 2019 by I1L2T3

[Baron99 779]

34 minutes ago, DnAuK said:

Interesting reading from the Guardian

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/17/semi-brexit-england-wales-leaving-eu-solution

 

Quote - "A semi-Brexit, with just England and Wales leaving the EU, is the solution"

 

I don't pretend to understand all of this, but it seems there is precedent for it. And I have seen signs of this being quoted before in the job I do. But if it was realistic, why has it not been mentioned before i wonder?

As I posted earlier.  Today's 'i' newspaper has stated that SNP as beginning a timetable for a 2nd Independence vote. 

 

This lays bare one of the 'Project Fear' claims that the Brexit vote from 31 months ago would break up the Union as even if the Brexit vote had been 100% to remain, Sturgeon & the SNP would still be working towards their raising d'être.

[geared 303]

4 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

As I posted earlier.  Today's 'i' newspaper has stated that SNP as beginning a timetable for a 2nd Independence vote. 

 

This lays bare one of the 'Project Fear' claims that the Brexit vote from 31 months ago would break up the Union as even if the Brexit vote had been 100% to remain, Sturgeon & the SNP would still be working towards their raising d'être.

How does it lay it bare exactly???

 

They made a claim that a brexit vote could lead to the breakup of the Union and now news reports are circulating about Indyref 2???

[ez8004 10]

4 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

As I posted earlier.  Today's 'i' newspaper has stated that SNP as beginning a timetable for a 2nd Independence vote. 

 

This lays bare one of the 'Project Fear' claims that the Brexit vote from 31 months ago would break up the Union as even if the Brexit vote had been 100% to remain, Sturgeon & the SNP would still be working towards their raising d'être.

No they wouldn’t because there hasn’t been a fundamental change in circumstance if we remained. Therefore, there would not have been a good enough reason for Westminster to consider sanctioning a second independence referendum.