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Consequences of brexit [part 6] read first post before posting

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As the previous thread was running to 700 pages it's time for a new thread.

 

 Let me make this perfectly clear - any personal attacks will get you a suspension. The moderating team is not going to continually issue warnings. If you cannot remain civil and post within forum rules then do not bother to contribute.

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What do people think, is it unreasonable to suppose that the EU has a vested interest in making an example of us, in order to dissuade other member states from following suit?

It is what is it, and what it was always going to be. It's an inevitable part of the process.

There is no "making an example" and there is nothing unreasonable about it.

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They are not making an example of us. 

 

They set out their position and their negotiating stance at the start, and they have not wavered from it. We knew what we were dealing with and they played all their cards in one go all at the beginning.

 

The 27 have negotiated as a coherent block despite U.K. attempts to undermine that. But the individual states have also made great concessions with the Government’s of Italy, France and the Netherlands confirming generous post-Brexit conditions for U.K. nationals. In the case of the Netherlands their offer to U.K. nationals even holds firm in the event of catastrophic no-deal. The Dutch realise the value of the 50,000 U.K. nationals working in their economy.

 

We are categorically the author of our own misfortune. To blame anybody else is lazy and ignorant.

Edited by I1L2T3

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1 hour ago, I1L2T3 said:

 

We are categorically the author of our own misfortune. To blame anybody else is lazy and ignorant.

I suspect the express, mail and telegraph will convey a rather different message to their blindly loyal followers when the time comes. 

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2 hours ago, I1L2T3 said:

We are categorically the author of our own misfortune. To blame anybody else is lazy and ignorant.

That is of no consequence now. We are where we are, and as far as I'm concerned, the only issue is how do we make the best of it. We can either be pragmatic and strategic, or we can be defeatist.

 

Also, whatever happened to 'nothing is decided until everything is decided'?

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We chose the deadline date, not the EU. We fell over ourselves to keep the tabloids happy without the foggiest of ideas how it was going to work. Nearly two years since WE triggered article 50, we still don't know what we want where we are and couldn't be less unified.

 

The EU set their stall out, watched and waited. There's no punishment involved here, just levels of unity and competence that we just don't have.

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I agree, our political leaders seem to be in total disarray, too many divergent positions, too much in fighting, etc.

 

From our side, we should be just as clear regarding what we want and what is acceptable to us, as the EU have been.

 

I'm not convinced there isn't an element of punishment (deterrent) involved though. It would make perfect sense for there to be so.

Edited by Waldo
adding a new line between where my 2 separate posts were merged.

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8 minutes ago, Waldo said:

From our side, we should be just as clear regarding what we want and what is acceptable to us, as the EU have been.

 

I'm not convinced there isn't an element of punishment (deterrent) involved though. It would make perfect sense for there to be so.

I shall use the golf club analogy once again.

 

If a person resigns from a golf club and still wants to use all its facilities but without paying a membership fee and the club says "Of course you can't, but if you pay an associate membership fee and you can play on Tuesday afternoons and of course adhere to the rules of the club".

 

Are they punishing the member who has left or are they in fact being entirely reasonable and representing the interests of the full time, fee paying members?

 

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4 hours ago, Waldo said:

That is of no consequence now. We are where we are, and as far as I'm concerned, the only issue is how do we make the best of it. We can either be pragmatic and strategic, or we can be defeatist.

 

Also, whatever happened to 'nothing is decided until everything is decided'?

indeed

 

but its gonna be far worse than we had, whatever is decided

3 hours ago, Waldo said:

I agree, our political leaders seem to be in total disarray, too many divergent positions, too much in fighting, etc.

 

From our side, we should be just as clear regarding what we want and what is acceptable to us, as the EU have been.

 

I'm not convinced there isn't an element of punishment (deterrent) involved though. It would make perfect sense for there to be so.

its NOT punishment, that is a right wing conspiracy theory, we decided to leave, that means we leave everything, not bits, if we decide to rejoin bits we negotiate those bits. They are 27 countries as one, we are one country, they hold all the cards not us.

how many times do we need to reiterate all of this :(

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4 hours ago, Waldo said:

I agree, our political leaders seem to be in total disarray, too many divergent positions, too much in fighting, etc.

 

From our side, we should be just as clear regarding what we want and what is acceptable to us, as the EU have been.

 

I'm not convinced there isn't an element of punishment (deterrent) involved though. It would make perfect sense for there to be so.

No, because hurting the UK will hurt the EU.

The thing that will dissuade countries from leaving the EU will be Europeans, looking at the UK today, and thinking "Maybe we should try to reform it from the inside."

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5 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

I suspect the express, mail and telegraph will convey a rather different message to their blindly loyal followers when the time comes. 

Yes - despite our opt outs from the euro and Schengen - plus the rebate we get - it'll still be nasty Europeans "dictating" to plucky Brits.

Edited by Longcol

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