The french treat speed cameras exactly as they should be treat

[Longcol 602]

25 minutes ago, Brooker11 said:

I'm a little surprised at this as reports I've read have said that a vast cross section of people are joining the protests, surely all the 100's of ambulance drivers that blocked motorways a few weeks ago are not all extremists and fruitcakes, you may be being misled by the French media as we are with ours.

282,000 joined the protests on the first Saturday - down to 84,000 last Saturday - and it is very much a Saturday only protest - no strike action or anything like that. 

 

Population of France 67 million.

 

The speed camera thing started before the gilets jaunes anyway - it's only since the gj's latched on to it that the british press have been reporting it.

 

I first posted about it over 3 months ago.

 

https://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/topic/461831-red-light-camera-on-fire-in-sheffield/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-8160543

 

Edited January 15, 2019 by Longcol

[L00b 441]

9 hours ago, Brooker11 said:

I'm a little surprised at this as reports I've read have said that a vast cross section of people are joining the protests, surely all the 100's of ambulance drivers that blocked motorways a few weeks ago are not all extremists and fruitcakes, you may be being misled by the French media as we are with ours.

Did you read these reports in a British red top, by any chance? The Express, perhaps?

 

No misleading here: I've seen YJ protesters here and there (blink and you'll miss them)  in my neck of the woods, and speak daily with French colleagues, friends and family, beside taking news from French, Belgian (they also have YJ protests) and Luxembourgish media.

 

The protest was novel and mildly interesting when it started. Now most people are just bored about it, but severely miffed at instances of YJ's criminal damage, because it's being repaired at their (tax-paying) expense. Whether it was the YJs or infiltrated elements, the turning point for the YJs was some weeks ago when they damaged the Arc de Triomphe. That's when they completely lost the moral high ground on which their protest was initially based.

 

Don't get taken in by hysteria.

Edited January 16, 2019 by L00b

[Brooker11 10]

6 minutes ago, L00b said:

Did you read these reports in a British red top, by any chance? The Express, perhaps?

 

No misleading here: I've seen YJ protesters here and there (blink and you'll miss them)  in my neck of the woods, and speak daily with French colleagues, friends and family, beside taking news from French, Belgian (they also have YJ protests) and Luxembourgish media.

 

The protest was novel and mildly interesting when it started. Now most people are just bored about it, but severely miffed at instances of YJ's criminal damage, because it's being repaired at their (tax-paying) expense. Whether it was the YJs or infiltrated elements, the turning point for the YJs was some weeks ago when they damaged the Arc de Triomphe. That's when they completely lost the moral high ground on which their protest was initially based.

 

Don't get taken in by hysteria.

No I don't read newspapers, it was from a guy on Twitter who was there and said he was surprised at the cross section of people involved, I also saw the ambulance protest shown on the TV news, I'm sure they didn't stage it.

 

Whatever the numbers involved they are certainly getting their views heard, media attention and the stalling of the fuel tax raise.

[L00b 441]

56 minutes ago, Brooker11 said:

No I don't read newspapers, it was from a guy on Twitter who was there and said he was surprised at the cross section of people involved, I also saw the ambulance protest shown on the TV news, I'm sure they didn't stage it.

 

Whatever the numbers involved they are certainly getting their views heard, media attention and the stalling of the fuel tax raise.

There's no doubt that the YJs have a very broad membership: basically, it's anyone with a gripe, legitimate or imagined, ready and willing to demonstrate, from long-term unemployed to retirees, including nationalists, anarchists, extremists and assorted other ne'er do wells. As I said earlier, it's a very heterogenous group. But that does not equate with equally-broad support across the rest of the population.

 

So, for all that kerfuffle, they got a temporary freeze on fuel duty increases (what the protest was originally about - result for them, fair is fair) and lately a 'nationwide consultation' (in simple terms, "come write your issues in a book at your local townhall") overseen by 2 junior ministers.

 

The government, for its part, got new legislation outlawing face masking during demonstrations and, on the back of those written complaints to come, solid gold data for future electoral manifestos. A fair swap I'd say

 

My educated guess is that it's now reaching the end of the petering out phase.

[Brooker11 10]

5 minutes ago, L00b said:

There's no doubt that the YJs have a very broad membership: basically, it's anyone with a gripe, legitimate or imagined, ready and willing to demonstrate, from long-term unemployed to retirees, including nationalists, anarchists, extremists and assorted other ne'er do wells. As I said earlier, it's a very heterogenous group. But that does not equate with equally-broad support across the rest of the population.

 

So, for all that kerfuffle, they got a temporary freeze on fuel duty increases (what the protest was originally about - result for them, fair is fair) and lately a 'nationwide consultation' (in simple terms, "come write your issues in a book at your local townhall") overseen by 2 junior ministers.

 

The government, for its part, got new legislation outlawing face masking during demonstrations and, on the back of those written complaints to come, solid gold data for future electoral manifestos. A fair swap I'd say

 

My educated guess is that it's now reaching the end of the petering out phase.

They got world wide attention and made a fool of Macron, objective achieved. I'd rather that then stand meekly by and take it on the chin as we tend to do.

[woodview 10]

9 minutes ago, L00b said:

There's no doubt that the YJs have a very broad membership: basically, it's anyone with a gripe, legitimate or imagined, ready and willing to demonstrate, from long-term unemployed to retirees, including nationalists, anarchists, extremists and assorted other ne'er do wells. As I said earlier, it's a very heterogenous group. But that does not equate with equally-broad support across the rest of the population.

 

So, for all that kerfuffle, they got a temporary freeze on fuel duty increases (what the protest was originally about - result for them, fair is fair) and lately a 'nationwide consultation' (in simple terms, "come write your issues in a book at your local townhall") overseen by 2 junior ministers.

 

The government, for its part, got new legislation outlawing face masking during demonstrations and, on the back of those written complaints to come, solid gold data for future electoral manifestos. A fair swap I'd say

 

My educated guess is that it's now reaching the end of the petering out phase.

Isn't the issue in France and elsewhere, there is a general mistrust of current political parties, who have gone their own way and are unaware or disinterested in the concerns of lots of people on lots of issues.

This has left are large amount of disaffected people. Not all angry about the same thing, just angry about the whole situation 

Macron played on that to get elected, but seems he is now thought of in the same way.

The same problem exists in British politics, without the results that tend to happen in France. But I predict changes in our current parties fairly soon 

[L00b 441]

Just now, woodview said:

Isn't the issue in France and elsewhere, there is a general mistrust of current political parties, who have gone their own way and are unaware or disinterested in the concerns of lots of people on lots of issues.

This has left are large amount of disaffected people. Not all angry about the same thing, just angry about the whole situation 

Macron played on that to get elected, but seems he is now thought of in the same way.

The same problem exists in British politics, without the results that tend to happen in France. But I predict changes in our current parties fairly soon 

The fundamental issue, in France much as anywhere else in the first world, is that 21st century geopolitics are catching up legacy 20th century can-kicking politics of appeasement.

 

The longer reforms needed to perpetuate a social model are put off, and the longer the (hard) truths about the survivability of that social model are suppressed, the more extensive and fundamental thoses needed reforms get, the more misleadingly entitled the public becomes and so, inevitably, the harder the public reaction to reforms becomes when those reforms eventually start.

 

In France, Chirac dodged them completely, Sarkozy tried but soon gave up, Hollande dodged them again completely. People got too entitled to decades' worth of easy-ish life, (hardly-) paid for with a supertanker's worth of small direct and indirect taxes fashioned after the fabled death of a thousand cuts/boiled frog syndrome.

 

Now Macron is having at those reforms, and unsurprisingly their impact is  harshly felt by those most impacted.

[woodview 10]

7 minutes ago, L00b said:

The fundamental issue, in France much as anywhere else in the first world, is that 21st century geopolitics are catching up legacy 20th century can-kicking politics of appeasement.

 

The longer reforms needed to perpetuate a social model are put off, and the longer the (hard) truths about the survivability of that social model are suppressed, the more extensive and fundamental thoses needed reforms get, the more misleadingly entitled the public becomes and so, inevitably, the harder the public reaction to reforms becomes when those reforms eventually start.

 

In France, Chirac dodged them completely, Sarkozy tried but soon gave up, Hollande dodged them again completely. People got too entitled to decades' worth of easy-ish life, (hardly-) paid for with a supertanker's worth of small direct and indirect taxes fashioned after the fabled death of a thousand cuts/boiled frog syndrome.

 

Now Macron is having at those reforms, and unsurprisingly their impact is  harshly felt by those most impacted.

I agree. Western countries living on their laurels, supported by swelling debt isn't a sustainable model.

There has to be some wake-up calls in lots of quarters, and lots of that will involve bitter pills. Higher tax, 'austerity' , long term investment, education and a return to understanding where money comes from isn't easy or quick .

Like going to weight watchers when you are already a size 24. Some people just want to drink a can of meal shake and imagine it will get better. It's harder than that.

[tinfoilhat 11]

1 hour ago, Brooker11 said:

They got world wide attention and made a fool of Macron, objective achieved. I'd rather that then stand meekly by and take it on the chin as we tend to do.

So what you organising then? 

[Brooker11 10]

7 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

So what you organising then? 

Nothing thats a thing that should be done by younger more able people but the last few decades have shown that the media and the general public would charactar assassinate anyone who did make a stand and probably ruin their lives, thats what we've been reduced to in this country and why (for example) we have the mostly costly and dreadful train service in Europe amongst other things.

[alchresearch 214]

1 hour ago, Brooker11 said:

Nothing thats a thing that should be done by younger more able people but the last few decades have shown that the media and the general public would charactar assassinate anyone who did make a stand and probably ruin their lives, thats what we've been reduced to in this country and why (for example) we have the mostly costly and dreadful train service in Europe amongst other things.

Last few decades?  What about the fuel protests in 2000?  

 

The only rabble rousing I've seen in the UK for a similar protest is from a far right Facebook group who were more interested in selling yellow hi-vis vest with a Union Jack on the back for £14 than actually organizing anything.  It makes me smile to think of these angry people with a cheap  vest and nowhere to wear it!

[woodview 10]

I'm going to knock over some plant pots in my garden.