Is patreon going down?

[Waldo 96]

11 minutes ago, melthebell said:

watched the first few minutes of the first video...and backs up what i said, THEY (patreon) has seen, stuff theyve posted, and removed them, doesnt matter if its your facts, your opinions if its deemed dodgy (ie:- hate speech) its gone, doesnt matter what fancy terminology you use its the same. dont like it, A:- dont use the hate speech...or find a platform that likes it

Presumably within the first few minutes of watching the video, you understood what was posted, the context, who to, it's intent, and that patreons T&C's were not breached (either as written or as verbally expressed by the owner of the company)...

 

If you're just going to watch the first few mins of a 29 minute video; I'm stuggling to see how you're in a position to digest and evaluate all the points being made.

[Waldo 96]

Also, if they just had robots scanning content added to their site; and automatically banning anyone who used predefined banned words; and that standard was applied equally to all users without consideration of context; I would have zero problem with that.

 

The bit I find concerning is where platform holders selectively apply the rules (or go beyond the rules, and act on a whim out of their own political bias) to some users and not others. It's a very slippery slope my friend.

 

Of course, as Top Cats Hat points out; Patreon is a private (or is a public?) company and they can do what they please; so long as they act within the confines of the law. People are also free to move to other platforms, or create their own if they don't like Patreons political motivations.

 

The point TCH makes about platform holders having to limit their own liability by way of not allowing users to post illegal things, is in this case, probably mute; as the questionable content was not posted on the Patreon platform itself.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

42 minutes ago, Waldo said:

The point TCH makes about platform holders having to limit their own liability by way of not allowing users to post illegal things, is in this case, probably mute; as the questionable content was not posted on the Patreon platform itself.

The point I was making wasn't about posting illegal content it was about falling foul of the laws which prohibit fund raising for certain extreme groups or causes.

 

There are plenty of crank US and Russian websites which are more than happy to host all manner of questionable content.

[Waldo 96]

52 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

The point I was making wasn't about posting illegal content it was about falling foul of the laws which prohibit fund raising for certain extreme groups or causes.

 

There are plenty of crank US and Russian websites which are more than happy to host all manner of questionable content.

Thanks TCH. Not sure I follow your point though...

 

Who is falling foul? Do you mean the platform holders who are hosting content? If so, why would laws only apply to some platform holders, and not others? (i.e. the crank US websites happy to host questionable content)

 

Also, as a more general point relating to this thread, I'd be very interested to see this objectionable content created by the Patreon users I've referenced. If anyone can be bothered that is. I'm just curious to know what it is people feel justifies Patreon's 'deplatforming' some users.

Edited January 5, 2019 by Waldo

[XXTickerXX 10]

Well Jordan Peterson and Dave Rubin are leaving Patreon this month and getting their own platform up and running with multiple payment options for content creators. I have already seen You-tubers  complaining their revenue is falling because people are deleting their Patreon accounts so are no longer supporting them.

 

Patreon have likely been told what to do off Mastercard and Paypal.  It's a worrying trend that  the regressive left are trying to tell people what they can and cannot support.  Explaining common sense to the left is like herding cats though. Just remember most of the political left are all complete bigots using political correctness as a weapon of oppression. 

[Waldo 96]

1 hour ago, XXTickerXX said:

Well Jordan Peterson and Dave Rubin are leaving Patreon this month and getting their own platform up and running with multiple payment options for content creators. I have already seen You-tubers  complaining their revenue is falling because people are deleting their Patreon accounts so are no longer supporting them.

 

Patreon have likely been told what to do off Mastercard and Paypal.  It's a worrying trend that  the regressive left are trying to tell people what they can and cannot support.  Explaining common sense to the left is like herding cats though. Just remember most of the political left are all complete bigots using political correctness as a weapon of oppression. 

Glad at least one other person on SF gets it!

 

It seems the left have also been going after Patreon alternative, Subscribe Star. As I understand it, getting PayPal to withdraw support from the platform. Apparently, they collect all kinds of snippets of information on people they don't like, and present these, out of context, to the likes of PayPal in order to take down any voices they don't like the sound of.

 

Subscribe Star say they're not out of the game yet, just having to switch to alternative payment mechanisms. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future, these kind of platforms start using crypto currency for payments.

 

Its not that I'm at all aligned with Jordan Peterson or Dave Rubin, or share their political views; it's just the manipulation and trying to shut down anyone who doesn't share your ideology; and platform holders capitulating (though, you can imagine how PayPal have platform holders over a barrel) that I find so alarming.

[melthebell 863]

2 hours ago, Waldo said:

Glad at least one other person on SF gets it!

 

It seems the left have also been going after Patreon alternative, Subscribe Star. As I understand it, getting PayPal to withdraw support from the platform. Apparently, they collect all kinds of snippets of information on people they don't like, and present these, out of context, to the likes of PayPal in order to take down any voices they don't like the sound of.

 

Subscribe Star say they're not out of the game yet, just having to switch to alternative payment mechanisms. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future, these kind of platforms start using crypto currency for payments.

 

Its not that I'm at all aligned with Jordan Peterson or Dave Rubin, or share their political views; it's just the manipulation and trying to shut down anyone who doesn't share your ideology; and platform holders capitulating (though, you can imagine how PayPal have platform holders over a barrel) that I find so alarming.

Paypal also make it harder to allow torrenters / pirates to get donations. Its about keeping their platforms legal, above board, morally correct NOT bowing down to some fantasy left wing conspiracy

[Top Cats Hat 10]

15 hours ago, Waldo said:

If so, why would laws only apply to some platform holders, and not others? (i.e. the crank US websites happy to host questionable content)

The law applies to all platform holders but some of the crank US sites are either run by complete crackerjacks who think that the end of days are coming so don't care, or they are bankrolled by seriously rich businessmen.

[I1L2T3 10]

On 1/5/2019 at 10:53 AM, XXTickerXX said:

Well Jordan Peterson and Dave Rubin are leaving Patreon this month and getting their own platform up and running with multiple payment options for content creators. I have already seen You-tubers  complaining their revenue is falling because people are deleting their Patreon accounts so are no longer supporting them.

 

Patreon have likely been told what to do off Mastercard and Paypal.  It's a worrying trend that  the regressive left are trying to tell people what they can and cannot support.  Explaining common sense to the left is like herding cats though. Just remember most of the political left are all complete bigots using political correctness as a weapon of oppression. 

I bigger pile of nonsense I have rarely read

 

Most of the political left are bigots and use political correctness as a weapon of oppression?

 

What utter rot.

 

Seriously. 

22 hours ago, Waldo said:

Glad at least one other person on SF gets it!

 

It seems the left have also been going after Patreon alternative, Subscribe Star. As I understand it, getting PayPal to withdraw support from the platform. Apparently, they collect all kinds of snippets of information on people they don't like, and present these, out of context, to the likes of PayPal in order to take down any voices they don't like the sound of.

 

Subscribe Star say they're not out of the game yet, just having to switch to alternative payment mechanisms. I wouldn't be surprised if in the future, these kind of platforms start using crypto currency for payments.

 

Its not that I'm at all aligned with Jordan Peterson or Dave Rubin, or share their political views; it's just the manipulation and trying to shut down anyone who doesn't share your ideology; and platform holders capitulating (though, you can imagine how PayPal have platform holders over a barrel) that I find so alarming.

At the end of the day you are talking about a weird online battle between a small number of people.

 

And then transposing that battle onto the whole population, as if any of us really care

 

 

[Waldo 96]

32 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

At the end of the day you are talking about a weird online battle between a small number of people.

 

And then transposing that battle onto the whole population, as if any of us really care

 

 

Hmm, I'm confused, where am I transposing onto the whole population?

 

Also, I'm a bit puzzled, how have you concluded 'non of us really care', did you do a poll?

Edited January 6, 2019 by Waldo

[I1L2T3 10]

11 minutes ago, Waldo said:

Hmm, I'm confused, where am I transposing onto the whole population?

 

Also, I'm a bit puzzled, how have you concluded 'non of us really care', did you do a poll?

Go down the supermarket or pub and ask a selection of people what Patreon is

 

Basically you’re talking about online student politics plus some older people who should know better and are trying to turn a buck (from Patreon and other platforms) from amplifying political views, quite often views they don’t even really hold themselves.

 

Lets talk about political correctness as a weapon of oppression. I’m really interested in that concept

[Waldo 96]

11 hours ago, I1L2T3 said:

Lets talk about political correctness as a weapon of oppression. I’m really interested in that concept

It's essentially manipulation and coercion isn't it? What's to say? People are lovely...

 

Yeah, this particular story has really triggered me. I'm curious as to why that is; normally I'd be more inclined to focus on something more profitable (for me, that furthers my own ends etc), so why this has caught my attention, god only knows.

 

I'm also not ignorant to the very likely probability that these banned (by Patreon) individuals are whipping up a storm, and presenting events in a light that best advances their own particular agenda (kerching).

 

So why has this triggered me? Plus I have to ask myself, why am I insisting that everyone should be fair minded and wholistic when it comes to debate and presenting their versions of events, rather that partial, devious, unfair.

 

Maybe that the root problem here, I am expecting the world and everyone in it, to conform to my ideas of how I think things and people should be.

 

Also, another side issue really; some of these expert debaters are very skilled and easily 'win' arguments (through clever skilful tactics, like they talk twice as fast as anyone else, and through lots of flawed arguments at you), but even though they win, often they're not right, and they disregard the wider context and ignore other important considerations.