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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, WaveyDavey said:

Thameslink - Only DOO on their suburban network.

 

Incorrect.

Edited by Martin C

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

Ah right.  So the Rail Standards Board and Office for Rail and Road are completely wrong then? 

 

The Secretary of State is implementing these contractual terms on operators just for a giggle then?  

 

Maybe they should have listened to you eh?   You clearly know better.  

 

No they aren't wrong at all..... The systems they are saying have been in use for years are the one's you and I have both mentioned. And none of them are anything close to the model that is being planned by Northern. Those other TOCs also still have someone safety critical (as a guard is) on the train as well as the driver which Northern haven't confirmed will be the case, Only that there will be a second member of staff on board. Could you also post where Northern have said they will be installing DOO equipment at all of their stations?  (Over 500 of them last time I checked), Because I can't seem to find it myself.  This equipment is installed on the other DOO lines..... DOO cameras (Usually between two and four per platform), DOO Monitors (Usually between two and four per platform) and in some other cases DOO mirrors along with the associated control equipment and cabling. Then there's the faulting and maintenance of said equipment. This is all in place on the systems that RSB and ORR are referring to.

 

You see I'm talking from experience of working with the existing DOO systems that are in place elsewhere in the country and not just going on what is being put out by the TOC. 

Edited by WaveyDavey

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5 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

Ah right.  So the Rail Standards Board and Office for Rail and Road are completely wrong then? 

 

The Secretary of State is implementing these contractual terms on operators just for a giggle then?  

 

Maybe they should have listened to you eh?   You clearly know better.  

 

It isn’t a contractual requirement for Northern. ARN are choosing to implement it, they aren’t required to. 

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 Northern are saying that they will ensure a 2nd  man will be on the trains.

 

If this is the case, I do wonder why they want to remove the current 2nd  man I. E the guard. Are they intending to pay the 2nd man much less than the guard. If so, would that be because he won'the be trained up to the standards that guards are, especially in respect of safety.

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16 hours ago, Janus said:

 Northern are saying that they will ensure a 2nd  man will be on the trains.

 

If this is the case, I do wonder why they want to remove the current 2nd  man I. E the guard. Are they intending to pay the 2nd man much less than the guard. If so, would that be because he won'the be trained up to the standards that guards are, especially in respect of safety.

They will do everything except close/open doors. 

 

So ticket inspection, disability assistance etc. 

 

They just won't press the button to close the doors or the other one connected to a buzzer. 

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20 hours ago, Resident said:

They will do everything except close/open doors. 

 

So ticket inspection, disability assistance etc. 

 

They just won't press the button to close the doors or the other one connected to a buzzer. 

Will they get off the train to lay down detonators, deal with a fatality, or a train evacuation? Will they be route trained and rulebook trained? Will they be trained to do all the jobs that you’re unaware and ignorant of?

 

errr, no because they won’t be safety critical. A guard does a LOT more than open close doors, inspect tickets and deal with disabled passengers. 

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12 minutes ago, Hook said:

Will they get off the train to lay down detonators, deal with a fatality, or a train evacuation? Will they be route trained and rulebook trained? Will they be trained to do all the jobs that you’re unaware and ignorant of?

 

errr, no because they won’t be safety critical. A guard does a LOT more than open close doors, inspect tickets and deal with disabled passengers. 

Firstly dealing with a fatality.  Well apart from ringing the emergency services what else do they need to do.  Platform staff also have to deal with fatalities (see number of them near Meadowall and Chesterfield station.   As for detonators!!!! They are guards not the army!  What the heck will they be blowing up????

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2 minutes ago, woodmally said:

Firstly dealing with a fatality.  Well apart from ringing the emergency services what else do they need to do.  Platform staff also have to deal with fatalities (see number of them near Meadowall and Chesterfield station.   As for detonators!!!! They are guards not the army!  What the heck will they be blowing up????

Perhaps a lesson is required on how railways are operated and how the detonators protect the trains you are travelling on.

In Northern land where mechanical signalling, semaphores, bad weather, remoteness, ancient track and ancient trains are normal on whole sections of routes, detonators are still placed on tracks to warn a driver that they are about to crash into something. Most commonly laid on Sundays to protect engineering work and workers, they are also laid down by drivers or guards behind and sometimes in front of a trains which have been stopped by signal failure,  mechanical issues, weather, illness etc. 

There is no argument about the increased safety of our railway- no deaths on trains in over ten years,  has been in part due to increasingly effective modern safety features on new trains, track and infrastructure. BUT we are in Northern land where a mainline between Sheffield and Manchester still have single tracks, semaphores, remote signal boxes, ancient tunnels, bridges and embankments cuttings. 

 

Until we have the equivalent of a London railway then I would prefer my money (fares and tax) goes into the hands of a Guard than to a Shareholder.

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1 hour ago, woodmally said:

Firstly dealing with a fatality.  Well apart from ringing the emergency services what else do they need to do.  Platform staff also have to deal with fatalities (see number of them near Meadowall and Chesterfield station.   As for detonators!!!! They are guards not the army!  What the heck will they be blowing up????

Well done, you’ve just demonstrated your ignorance in all matters railway related. If you don’t understand what a Railway Guard does then perhaps you shouldn’t be commenting and advocating their removal. 

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On 1/8/2019 at 4:32 PM, Resident said:

They will do everything except close/open doors. 

 

So ticket inspection, disability assistance etc. 

 

They just won't press the button to close the doors or the other one connected to a buzzer. 

If that is the case, and let's say these new chaps are doing 90% of the job, why remove the guard who is doing 100%?

 

If it's not broken it doesn't need fixing ? What bit am I missing? 

 

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Traffic was really bad today in city centre. There was a united game but lots of this traffic was also people from town. Guess many were there who would have taken train otherwise.

Edited by dutch

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On 09/01/2019 at 12:57, woodmally said:

Firstly dealing with a fatality.  Well apart from ringing the emergency services what else do they need to do.  Platform staff also have to deal with fatalities (see number of them near Meadowall and Chesterfield station.   As for detonators!!!! They are guards not the army!  What the heck will they be blowing up????

Brilliant..... Love it. 

 

They aren't detonators that blow things up.... They are strapped to the rail head in emergencies when required to protect a stood train and if run over by another train make a very loud bang to warn the driver to stop immediately. 

 

To use them you would have to be safety critical trained as you would be walking down the track away from the train to put them in place. Therefore the proposed 2nd person on the train would have to be safety critical like the guard is now to do this. 

 

I had to be trained in using them myself when I worked out on the track as an engineer as the guards and drivers are now. 

 

Anyway here's video showing them being set off....... 

 

Edited by WaveyDavey

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