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the strikes are to keep guards on the trains,females travelling alone will certainly miss them but this corrupt goverment dont give a t*ss as long as they are making money for their rich friends.the ticket prices went up today more profit for their rich friends. just because you feed the crocodile doesnt mean you wont be eaten.. just means it'll eat you last .!!

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Posted (edited)

Grayling on this occasion would be right. 

 

Bully boy unions - particularly the RMT are a big contributor to this situation. 

 

For example, Northern and the DFT themselves have stated multiple times that they intend to keep a second person on board trains - however, they just lose the responsiblity of opening and closing doors.    Who really cares except RMT millitants.     So, if that's all sorted then - why the hell are they still striking?     All this guff about 'safety' and 'protection of passengers' is just propaganda.    DOO has been in use on networks all over the country without problem. 

 

Im sure the usual tory bashers will throw plenty of mud at Grayling but the fact is you cannot have these continuing bumper pay rises to railway staff, repeated striking holding the commuters to  ransom, protected employment of wholly outdated and unnecessary job roles without an effect on the bank balance. 

 

As an other example of the hypocrisy RMT argued  up London allowances for its members by 29% (yes....29% increase) and people wonder why the fares have gone up.    To see them on the stations with their banners protesting about the fares increases made me sick to my stomach.

 

Edited by ECCOnoob

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

Grayling on this occasion would be right. 

 

Bully boy unions - particularly the RMT are a big contributor to this situation. 

 

For example, Northern and the DFT themselves have stated multiple times that they intend to keep a second person on board trains - however, they just lose the responsiblity of opening and closing doors.    Who really cares except RMT millitants.     So, if that's all sorted then - why the hell are they still striking?     All this guff about 'safety' and 'protection of passengers' is just propaganda.    DOO has been in use on networks all over the country without problem. 

 

Im sure the usual tory bashers will throw plenty of mud at Grayling but the fact is you cannot have these continuing bumper pay rises to railway staff, repeated striking holding the commuters to  ransom, protected employment of wholly outdated and unnecessary job roles without an effect on the bank balance. 

 

As an other example of the hypocrisy RMT argued  up London allowances for its members by 29% (yes....29% increase) and people wonder why the fares have gone up.    To see them on the stations with their banners protesting about the fares increases made me sick to my stomach.

 

That is not exactly true, though, becasuse they have refused to rule out job losses in future.

 

Technology has advanced to where it makes it almost impossible to travel anywhere without a ticket when implemented correctly. Then train companies will realise it is cheaper to scrap the guards and put a few inspectors on instead to catch the fare dodgers that are out there. And by this time you already have drivers operating the doors so it's not an issue is it...? You don't need to be a genius to see where this is going, so I have some sympathy with the unions.

 

That said, it is the same story in many walks of life where unskilled or semi-skilled workers will be replaced by automation. We have seen in retail where people will happily spend less on a product online than go into a store and talk to a salesperson, causing shops to close and associated job losses. With the recent rail price increases I suspect the same people would rather see them fall, even if it costs a few thousand jobs.

 

Being based in Barnsley I am slightly biased on this because Northern are the only rail company that serve our station. This means, if it wasn't for buses, I would have been confined to Saturdays drinking in Barnsley for the last 5 months. And, lets face it, no-one wants that! So I have already written to my MP asking him to challenge Northern on this matter because, quite frankly, they don;t seem to be interested in bringing the dispute to an end. Add in the timetable chaos the same company caused last year, and the fact the promised new rolling stock has not yet appeared, I think  it's fair to say they have failed to deliver on theor contract and I think it should be taken off them, in the same way as Midland Mainline was.

 

 

 

 

Edited by DnAuK

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There is the issue of compromising safety if the guards are removed from trains.
 

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21 minutes ago, Janus said:

There is the issue of compromising safety if the guards are removed from trains.
 

Like on tubes for example...?

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On 1/2/2019 at 6:11 PM, ECCOnoob said:

Grayling on this occasion would be right. 

 

Bully boy unions - particularly the RMT are a big contributor to this situation. 

 

For example, Northern and the DFT themselves have stated multiple times that they intend to keep a second person on board trains - however, they just lose the responsiblity of opening and closing doors.    Who really cares except RMT millitants.     So, if that's all sorted then - why the hell are they still striking?     All this guff about 'safety' and 'protection of passengers' is just propaganda.    DOO has been in use on networks all over the country without problem. 

 

Im sure the usual tory bashers will throw plenty of mud at Grayling but the fact is you cannot have these continuing bumper pay rises to railway staff, repeated striking holding the commuters to  ransom, protected employment of wholly outdated and unnecessary job roles without an effect on the bank balance. 

 

As an other example of the hypocrisy RMT argued  up London allowances for its members by 29% (yes....29% increase) and people wonder why the fares have gone up.    To see them on the stations with their banners protesting about the fares increases made me sick to my stomach.

 

I don't think having a go at Grayling makes anyone a Tory Basher - most people can see he is incompetent, including lots from his own backbenches. He left the prison and probation services in meltdown and has now taken his trail of devastation to transport, not just linked to the railways.

 

Absolutely the rail unions sometimes go too far, but to lay the blame for the state of the railways at their door is ludicrous.

 

It wasn't them that privatised the railways, allowing Northern's owners - German state railway, to profiteer in this country to subsidise state-owned rail travel in Germany. 

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51 minutes ago, Janus said:

There is the issue of compromising safety if the guards are removed from trains.
 

What safety is compromised?   This issue has been addressed numerous times.

 

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/news/latest-news/2145-government-commitment-for-a-second-person-to-be-retained-on-northern-services

 

David Brown, Managing Director at Northern, said: “It’s welcome news that the Government has confirmed that a second person will be retained on board our trains...."

"...Any remaining concerns about safety, security or accessibility have now been answered – there will be a second person on-board to meet customers’ needs in those areas, and in the other vital customer service work they do..."

 

I ask again.  What exactly is RMTs problem?    Why do they still have a reason to strike?  

 

If the RMT seriously expect some sort of crystal ball guarantee from the company they will never ever consider job losses at any point and under any circumstances in the future, then they are competely deluded and unreasonable.     What company can do that?   Who knows what developments in technology and delivery methods will be introduced.   Who knows what changes we the public will embrace and take as normality.    Jesus tonight, for Northen, they may not even have a franchise after 2025 so what exactly are they supposed to do.

 

Like I said early RMT bully boys causing maximum disruption to passengers.

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32 minutes ago, Eccy Beach said:

I don't think having a go at Grayling makes anyone a Tory Basher - most people can see he is incompetent, including lots from his own backbenches. He left the prison and probation services in meltdown and has now taken his trail of devastation to transport, not just linked to the railways.

 

Absolutely the rail unions sometimes go too far, but to lay the blame for the state of the railways at their door is ludicrous.

 

It wasn't them that privatised the railways, allowing Northern's owners - German state railway, to profiteer in this country to subsidise state-owned rail travel in Germany. 

I didn't lay all the blame at their door - but I will not accept that the unions arn't a big contributor to the problems.     Problems particarly involving disruptions to operations, delays to modernisation programmes and to the big black hole in the bank balance.

 

Privatisation has been a thing for approaching 25 years and under the control of at least 5 different political leaderships.  Even Labour had 13 of those 25 years to sort it out if they deemed it such a mess - they they?     Errrm.... NO.     Dont think we can push all the faults on Grayling for that can we.

 

I certainly dont think going back to Ye Olde British Rail would be much of an improvement either.    If government incompetence is the problem here as people keep suggesting - why the hell would we want to hand over all control back to them.    That would surely be a disaster. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

What safety is compromised?   This issue has been addressed numerous times.

 

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/news/latest-news/2145-government-commitment-for-a-second-person-to-be-retained-on-northern-services

 

David Brown, Managing Director at Northern, said: “It’s welcome news that the Government has confirmed that a second person will be retained on board our trains...."

"...Any remaining concerns about safety, security or accessibility have now been answered – there will be a second person on-board to meet customers’ needs in those areas, and in the other vital customer service work they do..."

 

I ask again.  What exactly is RMTs problem?    Why do they still have a reason to strike?  

 

If the RMT seriously expect some sort of crystal ball guarantee from the company they will never ever consider job losses at any point and under any circumstances in the future, then they are competely deluded and unreasonable.     What company can do that?   Who knows what developments in technology and delivery methods will be introduced.   Who knows what changes we the public will embrace and take as normality.    Jesus tonight, for Northen, they may not even have a franchise after 2025 so what exactly are they supposed to do.

 

Like I said early RMT bully boys causing maximum disruption to passengers.

Rather than referring to a press release from

the company which can hardly be referred to as impartial (and ignoring the fact that the second person on the train would NOT be safety critical and therefore unable to carry out the majority of duties a guard does and which are probably completely unaware of) have a look at the response from Transport for the North which is an independent body: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/nov/28/northern-rail-plan-to-remove-train-guards-faces-statutory-opposition

 

They’re saying that Northern shouldn’t be trying to remove the Guard and it isn’t part of their franchise agreement to get rid of the guard. 

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6 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

I didn't lay all the blame at their door - but I will not accept that the unions arn't a big contributor to the problems.     Problems particarly involving disruptions to operations, delays to modernisation programmes and to the big black hole in the bank balance.

 

Privatisation has been a thing for approaching 25 years and under the control of at least 5 different political leaderships.  Even Labour had 13 of those 25 years to sort it out if they deemed it such a mess - they they?     Errrm.... NO.     Dont think we can push all the faults on Grayling for that can we.

 

I certainly dont think going back to Ye Olde British Rail would be much of an improvement either.    If government incompetence is the problem here as people keep suggesting - why the hell would we want to hand over all control back to them.    That would surely be a disaster. 

 

 

Most would imagine that Privatisation of the railway would mean fare competition, control of the timetable, purchasing trains, maintain and improving track and stations and adding carriages when required, profit and risk- none of which happens.

 

 The railway is already controlled by the Government and uses the current structure to avoid criticism and legal obligation.

It uses the TOC franchise system to give the illusion of independence and competition.

Crucially the Government controls money and debt, allowing unfair bidding, allowing breaches of contract, ignoring competition law, avoidance of tax rules and passing laws that allow the TOCs to bypass laws relating to H&S, disability, safety and the environment.

 

Government policy regarding the railway has not significantly changed since 1968 when Beeching plan was completed by Labour.

Minimal investment in the regions and using national taxes and InterCity profits to subsidise rail in the South East.

 

Nobody wants the current system  of direct Government control  or a return to BR. A commercial railway has not been viable since 1928.

However the inability of any party/union/regions/us etc. to look at successful operation overseas and to be held responsible for adoption/adaptation means a railway and its customers in limbo.  

 

 

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On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 1:21 PM, ECCOnoob said:

What safety is compromised?   This issue has been addressed numerous times.

 

https://www.northernrailway.co.uk/news/latest-news/2145-government-commitment-for-a-second-person-to-be-retained-on-northern-services

 

David Brown, Managing Director at Northern, said: “It’s welcome news that the Government has confirmed that a second person will be retained on board our trains...."

"...Any remaining concerns about safety, security or accessibility have now been answered – there will be a second person on-board to meet customers’ needs in those areas, and in the other vital customer service work they do..."

 

I ask again.  What exactly is RMTs problem?    Why do they still have a reason to strike?  

 

If the RMT seriously expect some sort of crystal ball guarantee from the company they will never ever consider job losses at any point and under any circumstances in the future, then they are competely deluded and unreasonable.     What company can do that?   Who knows what developments in technology and delivery methods will be introduced.   Who knows what changes we the public will embrace and take as normality.    Jesus tonight, for Northen, they may not even have a franchise after 2025 so what exactly are they supposed to do.

 

Like I said early RMT bully boys causing maximum disruption to passengers.

I take it from your posts that you think the guard just opens and closes the doors and checks tickets?????

 

As far as I'm aware the suggested 2nd member of staff the TOC have spoken about will only be there to help with passenger security and queries etc.... and to help people with disabilities on and off the train...... 

 

With you seeming to know a lot about it from the TOCs perspective what are the plans for the safety critical aspects of the guards job? You do realise if there is ever an incident which brings your train to a stop or it fails and is unable to move the guard along with the driver have to carry out protection measures which include laying down detonators in either direction so as to stop another train in an emergency.

 

Do you really think these new lower paid members of staff will be trained to the same safety critical standards and therefore carrying out this work? No it will be left to the driver alone to carry this out which obviously will take him twice as long as it would at present with two members of staff.

 

 

But of course you knew all this didn't you. ;) 

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