Would you say a sign saying 'girls toys' is inappropriate?

[WiseOwl182 10]

33 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

You can't think of ways that toys could be categorized to allow easy browsing other than by genitalia of children?

Or perhaps, it's because you're a bit old fashioned.

Have you got children?

[BrexitGuy 0]

1 minute ago, Cyclone said:

We sometimes disagree, but on this we're totally on the same page.

Dolls are not for girls, mechano is not for boys.  Let them play without imposing gender stereotypes on them.

What makes a toy gender specific?

I would suggest a make up desk. Or how about anything that's mainly pink? Even new born clothes are gender specific, or blue or pink.

[leviathan13 349]

2 minutes ago, woodview said:

She can read, yes. Tescos don't sell adult toys, if they did that's obviously a different category.

Do you have kids? Do you want your daughter pushed into a route of what is for her, or would you prefer her to choose what she likes?

Hmmmmm... there are so many questions i have for that first bit!

 

Yeah, the adult toy comment was just being a tad playful.

 

From what i've learned in my 37 years on this planet... most people don't know what they want, let alone children! When i was 15, thrash metal was king! Now? All sorts of other metal has crept in.

 

What would you do if all the toys were in one aisle and your daughter still wanted a doll? Personally, i'd be more mortified if she chose Bieber over Led Zep, or Beyonce over Metallica!

 

I bet you influence your children on a daily basis without even knowing it... but you know what's best, so that's OK.

 

My assumption would be, for many of the parents bashing shops for forcing stereotypes, they allow their daughters to listen to the likes of Gaga, Little Mix and Beyonce etc. who tend to dress feminine and slutty... but their songs are catchy and popular, so that's OK... plus, they're strong, independent women (despite record companies planning the images to make money).

[BrexitGuy 0]

3 minutes ago, leviathan13 said:

Hmmmmm... there are so many questions i have for that first bit!

 

Yeah, the adult toy comment was just being a tad playful.

 

From what i've learned in my 37 years on this planet... most people don't know what they want, let alone children! When i was 15, thrash metal was king! Now? All sorts of other metal has crept in.

 

What would you do if all the toys were in one aisle and your daughter still wanted a doll? Personally, i'd be more mortified if she chose Bieber over Led Zep, or Beyonce over Metallica!

 

I bet you influence your children on a daily basis without even knowing it... but you know what's best, so that's OK.

 

My assumption would be, for many of the parents bashing shops for forcing stereotypes, they allow their daughters to listen to the likes of Gaga, Little Mix and Beyonce etc. who tend to dress feminine and slutty... but their songs are catchy and popular, so that's OK... plus, they're strong, independent women (despite record companies planning the images to make money).

Try not to cloud the PC chaps with sense. It might brush off 🎠⚽

[leviathan13 349]

12 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

Who's offended Leviathan?  I'm not.
Honestly, you lot amuse me.

 

You're offended that someone thinks that toys should just be toys.  You think that there's some reason that boys shouldn't play with dolls and you try to justify it as somehow a way of categorising toys to make them easier to find in the supermarket.

You've even managed to bring "adult toys" into it, because Tesco's is well known for selling them...  Right...

I haven't said boys shouldn't play with dolls... i couldn't care less if they did. My aunt and mum (when she was alive) loved Lego. Simply having a sign saying 'girls toys' is not stopping boys playing with them.

 

My point is simply that there are bigger things to worry about in life.

 

If Newcastle Brown brewed a pink ale and marketed it as for women, you know what i'd do? Order it in a pub because i like Newcastle Brown!

 

If you see words as a barrier, and this trickles down to your children, that shows me that you're pretty weak. Sticks and stones... people!

[woodview 10]

10 hours ago, leviathan13 said:

Hmmmmm... there are so many questions i have for that first bit!

 

Yeah, the adult toy comment was just being a tad playful.

 

From what i've learned in my 37 years on this planet... most people don't know what they want, let alone children! When i was 15, thrash metal was king! Now? All sorts of other metal has crept in.

 

What would you do if all the toys were in one aisle and your daughter still wanted a doll? Personally, i'd be more mortified if she chose Bieber over Led Zep, or Beyonce over Metallica!

 

I bet you influence your children on a daily basis without even knowing it... but you know what's best, so that's OK.

 

My assumption would be, for many of the parents bashing shops for forcing stereotypes, they allow their daughters to listen to the likes of Gaga, Little Mix and Beyonce etc. who tend to dress feminine and slutty... but their songs are catchy and popular, so that's OK... plus, they're strong, independent women (despite record companies planning the images to make money).

On my 50 years on the planet, I've learned some stuff too. I'm sure I do inadvertantly influence my kids, as we all will. They also pull me up on my sometimes purposeful ott anti-pc comments, as I dislike the way the offended seem to assume their offence trumps everything else.

You're making the wrong arguments to the wrong person.

I just  don't want Tesco telling my Metal music loving daughter mechano is for boys. It aint snowflake stuff, it's about letting your kids decide what they like themselves.

Take each issue on it's own. Rather than assuming stuff. As Cyclone comments above, our opinions on here are chalk and cheese, you don't have to jump in the camp you think you should be in every time.

[ECCOnoob 1,044]

13 hours ago, Penistone999 said:

Please tell me you are joking. 

No of course I'm not joking. We live in a modern progressive country.  Stop hiding in the wardrobe and see for yourself.

 

It's 2018.

 

Gay men can be truck drivers and women can work on oil rigs. It's no longer taboo for a man to say at home minding the baby whilst the woman goes out to work. 

 

A child's life is no longer constantly subject to a tick box exercise or categorisation just because of what they have or haven't got between their legs.  It's quite right that the retailing, targeting and provision of toys should reflect that.  

 

Straight men open and publicly wear make-up and 'womens' clothing items for fashion choices.   Gay men are no longer defined or identifiable by some stereotyping image of mincing around and flamboyant dress....... (Yes penny luv, they could be everywhere!)

 

Women no longer have to be seen as some pretty thing who stays at home making a nice dinner and looking after hubby.   Transgender people no longer have to be hiding in special clubs down the back streets of attercliffe. 

 

Ultimately, as the years go on and the next generation grows, shared facilities and less segregation in society will keep happening more and more. 

 

'Gender' and some associated stereotypical opinion on someones 'sexual orientation' will and is becoming less identified or even relevant on everyone. 

 

Don't be scared, come over the rainbow and embrace it.  

Edited December 22, 2018 by ECCOnoob

[Cyclone 10]

18 hours ago, leviathan13 said:

I haven't said boys shouldn't play with dolls... i couldn't care less if they did. My aunt and mum (when she was alive) loved Lego. Simply having a sign saying 'girls toys' is not stopping boys playing with them.

 

My point is simply that there are bigger things to worry about in life.

 

If Newcastle Brown brewed a pink ale and marketed it as for women, you know what i'd do? Order it in a pub because i like Newcastle Brown!

 

If you see words as a barrier, and this trickles down to your children, that shows me that you're pretty weak. Sticks and stones... people!

"Bigger things to worry about" is a way of dismissing just about any issue that isn't on the level of national disaster though.  I don't know about you but I can consider (not worry) more than one thing.  I don't have to ignore gender stereotypes in favour of global warming.

 

You miss the point though about the sign, of course it doesn't STOP boys playing with toys that are in the "girls section".  But it does set expectation, damaging expectations.

[WiseOwl182 10]

2 hours ago, Cyclone said:

"Bigger things to worry about" is a way of dismissing just about any issue that isn't on the level of national disaster though.  I don't know about you but I can consider (not worry) more than one thing.  I don't have to ignore gender stereotypes in favour of global warming.

 

You miss the point though about the sign, of course it doesn't STOP boys playing with toys that are in the "girls section".  But it does set expectation, damaging expectations.

Why "damaging"? "Damaging" in your opinion (I won't say humble, since you're anything but).

[Cyclone 10]

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/20/health/geas-gender-stereotypes-study/index.html

 

family, friends and society influence impressions of what it means to be a boy or a girl, placing rigid gender expectations on children from a young age. In recent years, a growing body of research has focused on health inequities that result from enforced gender norms in children.

The study, published Wednesday in the Journal of Adolescent Health, contributes a global perspective to this issue. The key finding: Whether a child is in Baltimore, Beijing or New Delhi, the onset of adolescence triggers a common set of rigidly enforced gender expectations associated with increased lifelong risks of mental and physical health problems.

 

Do you exist in an entirely information free world?  How do you not know this already?

Harmful stereotypes can be both hostile/negative (e.g., women are irrational) or seemingly benign (e.g., women are nurturing). For example, the fact that child care responsibilities often fall exclusively on women is based on the latter stereotype.

 

https://www.ohchr.org/en/issues/women/wrgs/pages/genderstereotypes.aspx

 

 

We’ve seen all the frilly pink items in the girls’ clothing section of every store, and the big men in beer commercials with muscles, looking at sexy ladies in bikinis. Society set these conflicting, gender-specific roles into motion long ago, but a new study published in the Journal Of Adolescent Health proves it’s time to change the way we do things because what’s happening now is dangerous and has harmful, long-lasting effects.

https://www.scarymommy.com/gender-stereotypes-harm-children-adults/

 

 

 

It's not like this information is difficult to find or anything.

So, to be clear, not in my opinion.  In the opinion of mental health professionals who've actually studied the issue.

[WiseOwl182 10]

34 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

https://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/20/health/geas-gender-stereotypes-study/index.html

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.ohchr.org/en/issues/women/wrgs/pages/genderstereotypes.aspx

 

 

 

 

https://www.scarymommy.com/gender-stereotypes-harm-children-adults/

 

 

 

It's not like this information is difficult to find or anything.

So, to be clear, not in my opinion.  In the opinion of mental health professionals who've actually studied the issue.

It's still an opinion. There are contradictory opinions. There's also the view that ill defined gender roles and expectations have led to an increased suicide rate among young males, as well as higher prevalence of mental illness. My opinion is that we could be damaging the majority to cater for a minority. 

 

And I'll ask again, do you actually have children?

[leviathan13 349]

13 hours ago, woodview said:

On my 50 years on the planet, I've learned some stuff too. I'm sure I do inadvertantly influence my kids, as we all will. They also pull me up on my sometimes purposeful ott anti-pc comments, as I dislike the way the offended seem to assume their offence trumps everything else.

You're making the wrong arguments to the wrong person.

I just  don't want Tesco telling my Metal music loving daughter mechano is for boys. It aint snowflake stuff, it's about letting your kids decide what they like themselves.

Take each issue on it's own. Rather than assuming stuff. As Cyclone comments above, our opinions on here are chalk and cheese, you don't have to jump in the camp you think you should be in every time.

The only way to let children have a fully uninfluenced view of the world would be to take them away from the parent and stick them on a secluded island.

 

Why did i watch The Holy Grail? Because it was recommended. In your world, it shouldn't have been recommended because i was being influenced by someone else and i should have found it out on my own. But what if i'd never found it?

 

Again - everyone; EVERYONE, is influenced constantly by daily life. How will a kid decide what they like if they don't experience things?

 

When your child was 1yo and you were in the car, and you decided to play music, did you consider the fact that you were influencing them? Did you give them the chance to decide what they wanted to listen to?

 

The reason I listen to the likes of 10cc and Billy Idol is because my dad played them to us. What you're suggesting is that i shouldn't have heard any music because i should choose what i want to listen to. But if no one plays me anything, how do i know what's out there?

 

You influence your children constantly, but apparently it's wrong if the rest of the world does.

 

How will your kid decide what they like if you refuse to let them experience things?