Would you say a sign saying 'girls toys' is inappropriate?

[Guest makapaka]

Just now, medusa said:

You were among those children and that has, in a deep dark inside your brain way, affected your views. 

 

Do you assume that a doctor will be male and a nurse will be female? 

 

How about an engineer?  Are they male or female?  If the girls are given toys which reduce their ability to handle numbers then it's hardly surprising that they are less likely to become engineers, is it?  Isn't that a disservice to a child who may have the potential to aim for more than working in care or being a hairdresser?

I don’t assume any of those things.

 

i loved he-man.

 

[medusa 16]

1 minute ago, makapaka said:

Trying to explain gender roles through toy marketing is just ignoring millions of years of evolution and focusing on what toys r us do to sell toys to kids. 

Except that all of the research into child development shows that the gender bias in numeracy and assertiveness etc, can be reversed in just a few months of offering the same opportunities to both genders.  Truly the same opportunities, praising boys and girls for exactly the same things and encouraging the same skills in both genders.

 

If it was an evolutionary difference surely it would take more than a few months to increase the girls' numeracy skills and reduce the boys' anger and discipline problems?

[BrexitGuy 0]

2 minutes ago, medusa said:

You were among those children and that has, in a deep dark inside your brain way, affected your views. 

 

Do you assume that a doctor will be male and a nurse will be female? 

 

How about an engineer?  Are they male or female?  If the girls are given toys which reduce their ability to handle numbers then it's hardly surprising that they are less likely to become engineers, is it?  Isn't that a disservice to a child who may have the potential to aim for more than working in care or being a hairdresser?

I'm not so sure. My doctor is a female. The mot tester at our local garage is a female and the lad that delivered my first child was most definitely a bloke. My daughter is a teacher and my daughter in law a therapist for injured soldiers. I would say my outlook is very accommodating to gender stereotypes because I don't buy it. Everyone is free to do as they please and when they become adults, the choice falls at their feet, not at the feet of Tesco's for having a girls and boys aisle.

[Guest makapaka]

Just now, medusa said:

Except that all of the research into child development shows that the gender bias in numeracy and assertiveness etc, can be reversed in just a few months of offering the same opportunities to both genders.  Truly the same opportunities, praising boys and girls for exactly the same things and encouraging the same skills in both genders.

 

If it was an evolutionary difference surely it would take more than a few months to increase the girls' numeracy skills and reduce the boys' anger and discipline problems?

Girls are generally better at numeracy - is that counting wheels on Ken’s Porsche or missing out on Meccano?

[medusa 16]

5 minutes ago, makapaka said:

I don’t assume any of those things.

 

i loved he-man.

 

And I grew up with my own sit on digger, a mum who taught me lots of joinery and DIY and a sister who taught me how to weld. 

 

My sister is a chartered chemical engineer and I grew up to be a scientist. 

I wonder how my choices would have differed if I had been limited to looking after dolls as a small child?

[mort 10]

3 minutes ago, BrexitGuy said:

I'm not so sure. My doctor is a female. The mot tester at our local garage is a female and the lad that delivered my first child was most definitely a bloke. My daughter is a teacher and my daughter in law a therapist for injured soldiers. I would say my outlook is very accommodating to gender stereotypes because I don't buy it. Everyone is free to do as they please and when they become adults, the choice falls at their feet, not at the feet of Tesco's for having a girls and boys aisle.

By the time you're 'old enough' to choose those choices have already been severely limited. Especially for girls. 

[tinfoilhat 11]

3 minutes ago, BrexitGuy said:

I'm not so sure. My doctor is a female. The mot tester at our local garage is a female and the lad that delivered my first child was most definitely a bloke. My daughter is a teacher and my daughter in law a therapist for injured soldiers. I would say my outlook is very accommodating to gender stereotypes because I don't buy it. Everyone is free to do as they please and when they become adults, the choice falls at their feet, not at the feet of Tesco's for having a girls and boys aisle.

Ok, lets say Tesco and Smyths just have "toy" isles. What's stopping aunty gertie buying little Liam a toy gun and uncle bertie buying waynetta a doll anyway?

1 minute ago, mort said:

By the time you're 'old enough' to choose those choices have already been severely limited. Especially for girls. 

So why are girls doing better at school then at most subjects and have done for a while?

[medusa 16]

4 minutes ago, BrexitGuy said:

I'm not so sure. My doctor is a female. The mot tester at our local garage is a female and the lad that delivered my first child was most definitely a bloke. My daughter is a teacher and my daughter in law a therapist for injured soldiers. I would say my outlook is very accommodating to gender stereotypes because I don't buy it. Everyone is free to do as they please and when they become adults, the choice falls at their feet, not at the feet of Tesco's for having a girls and boys aisle.

By the time you get to adulthood where you can make your own choices, some of the options have already been removed from your list, thus limiting your choices. 

There are biases based on gender, those based on ethnicity, socio-economic group, all kinds of bias. 

 

If you are seeing the outcome of a reduction in those biases then that's great.  It doesn't mean that ongoing changes aren't desirable though, does it?

[tinfoilhat 11]

2 minutes ago, medusa said:

And I grew up with my own sit on digger, a mum who taught me lots of joinery and DIY and a sister who taught me how to weld. 

 

My sister is a chartered chemical engineer and I grew up to be a scientist. 

I wonder how my choices would have differed if I had been limited to looking after dolls as a small child?

So it boils down to good parenting and a thirst for learning and not a sign in a shop.

 

Glad we've sorted that out!

[Guest makapaka]

1 minute ago, medusa said:

And I grew up with my own sit on digger, a mum who taught me lots of joinery and DIY and a sister who taught me how to weld. 

 

My sister is a chartered chemical engineer and I grew up to be a scientist. 

I wonder how my choices would have differed if I had been limited to looking after dolls as a small child?

But this kind of proves the point doesn’t it?

 

Your toys weren’t limited by labelling or marketing were they - or you wouldn’t have had them.

 

similarly - what skills would you have had if you had been given dolls do you think?

 

And if you believe there are such skills - have they been lost also?

[mort 10]

Because it isn't entirely about education is it? It's about learning what you can and can't do, what you're allowed to do. It's about being barred from aspiring to be who you are. It's interesting that men - who mostly benefit from this imbalance - are the most vociferous deniers of it isn't it? 

[Guest makapaka]

Just now, tinfoilhat said:

So it boils down to good parenting and a thirst for learning and not a sign in a shop.

 

Glad we've sorted that out!

Absolutely I’m glad I’m not the only one incapable of following that logic.