Racism within sheffield

[ormester 11]

On 1/8/2019 at 11:56 PM, makapaka said:

I don’t know why but neither does it matter to me.

 

a previous poster said it offends them and you seemed to agree but if you don’t then fine.

I’ve never heard anyone say that. Where did you hear that?

thats well known  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9217620/St-Georges-flag-is-a-racist-symbol-says-a-quarter-of-the-English.html  theres loads more

[WiseOwl182 10]

On 1/9/2019 at 9:16 AM, Cyclone said:

They can clearly be both though.

They are both Pakistani (racially speaking) and English or more accurately British (nationality speaking), both are correct.

It would be very unusual for someone of a different ethnic background to not recognise that wouldn't it?  So depending on context they may use both identifiers as appropriate.

Pakistani is a nationality not a race. You're comparing apples and pears.

 

My understanding is in that scenario, nationality would be British and race would be Asian, hence British Asian, as usually listed in the tick boxes at the end of various forms and questionnaires.

Edited January 10, 2019 by WiseOwl182

[Guest makapaka]

33 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

Pakistani is a nationality not a race. You're comparing apples and pears.

 

My understanding is in that scenario, nationality would be British and race would be Asian, hence British Asian, as usually listed in the tick boxes at the end of various forms and questionnaires.

Have you thought about why it bothers you that other people decide to identify differently to you yet? 

22 hours ago, ormester said:

thats well known  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/9217620/St-Georges-flag-is-a-racist-symbol-says-a-quarter-of-the-English.html  theres loads more

Flag not St. George’s day.

[WiseOwl182 10]

8 minutes ago, makapaka said:

Have you thought about why it bothers you that other people decide to identify differently to you yet? 

 

I answered that earlier in the thread.

 

I don't understand anyone who is British by definition, who would then deny their nationality. Nationality and race are separate. If a white British person with Irish great grandparents denied they were British and defined themselves as Irish, I'd feel the same way and wouldn't understand it.

[Cyclone 10]

8 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

Pakistani is a nationality not a race. You're comparing apples and pears.

 

My understanding is in that scenario, nationality would be British and race would be Asian, hence British Asian, as usually listed in the tick boxes at the end of various forms and questionnaires.

Asian isn't a race, not from what I understood anyway.

 

You might have heard americans identifying as Irish American or Italian American though, are you confused about why?  Because Irish and Italian are definitely nationalities.

7 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

I answered that earlier in the thread.

 

I don't understand anyone who is British by definition, who would then deny their nationality. Nationality and race are separate. If a white British person with Irish great grandparents denied they were British and defined themselves as Irish, I'd feel the same way and wouldn't understand it.

You've heard about the massive spike in applications for Irish passports right?

 

But you've not provided evidence that they ONLY define themselves as Irish, you just seem upset that they sometimes define themselves by their national or racial heritage instead of their adopted nationality.

Edited January 11, 2019 by Cyclone

[Guest makapaka]

10 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

I answered that earlier in the thread.

 

I don't understand anyone who is British by definition, who would then deny their nationality. Nationality and race are separate. If a white British person with Irish great grandparents denied they were British and defined themselves as Irish, I'd feel the same way and wouldn't understand it.

You might not understand - how could you - you don't know the other persons thoughts or reasoning.

 

You haven't explained why it should offend or bother you though.

[Halibut 12]

13 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

I answered that earlier in the thread.

 

I don't understand anyone who is British by definition, who would then deny their nationality. Nationality and race are separate. If a white British person with Irish great grandparents denied they were British and defined themselves as Irish, I'd feel the same way and wouldn't understand it.

I think you may be operating under a rather strange concept of what 'denying their nationality' means. Perhaps you mean that some second or third generation Paklistanis for example, if asked how they see themselves, would say Pakistani rather than British? I don't see that as a denial of being British, rather than that they more strongly associate with their Pakistani heritage than their Britishness.

      I really don't understand what's in any way controversial about that though, or why some people seem to find it insulting - perhaps you could explain?

[willman 10]

15 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

I answered that earlier in the thread.

 

I don't understand anyone who is British by definition, who would then deny their nationality. Nationality and race are separate. If a white British person with Irish great grandparents denied they were British and defined themselves as Irish, I'd feel the same way and wouldn't understand it.

I define myself as English - on many questionnaires,insurance etc however i have no option to select English. That's how I identify myself,just as my nephew identifies as Welsh and Alan Brazil identifies as Scottish. I don't deny belonging to the British Isles. My selection of being British is always as a fallback when no other option exists.

[WiseOwl182 10]

9 hours ago, Cyclone said:

Asian isn't a race, not from what I understood anyway.

 

You might have heard americans identifying as Irish American or Italian American though, are you confused about why?  Because Irish and Italian are definitely nationalities.

Yes, but in reality their nationality is American, if they were born in America.

9 hours ago, Cyclone said:

 

But you've not provided evidence that they ONLY define themselves as Irish, you just seem upset that they sometimes define themselves by their national or racial heritage instead of their adopted nationality.

I never said "ONLY". It was a hypothetical example anyway. What is an "adopted" nationality? Where do you draw the line? In the North of England, many will have Viking ancestry. Do they define themselves as British Norwegian? Why not? At what point is it accepted that you become the nationality of the country you live in? 1 generation? 10 generations? Come on. 

6 hours ago, makapaka said:

You might not understand - how could you - you don't know the other persons thoughts or reasoning.

 

You haven't explained why it should offend or bother you though.

I did explain earlier in the thread.

[WiseOwl182 10]

3 hours ago, Halibut said:

I think you may be operating under a rather strange concept of what 'denying their nationality' means. Perhaps you mean that some second or third generation Paklistanis for example, if asked how they see themselves, would say Pakistani rather than British? I don't see that as a denial of being British, rather than that they more strongly associate with their Pakistani heritage than their Britishness.

      I really don't understand what's in any way controversial about that though, or why some people seem to find it insulting - perhaps you could explain?

Do you think wanting to disassociate yourself with the country you were born in (and its people by implication) and your official nationality will (a) help with social integration or (b) hinder social integration?

 

Where do you draw the line? In the North of England, many will have Viking ancestry. Do they define themselves as British Norwegian? Why not? At what point is it accepted that you become the nationality of the country you live in? 1 generation? 10 generations?  It is unlikely that anyone can trace their ancestry back entirely to one single country only, therefore there has to be another definition for nationality.

 

 

[Cyclone 10]

19 minutes ago, WiseOwl182 said:

Do you think wanting to disassociate yourself with the country you were born in (and its people by implication) and your official nationality will (a) help with social integration or (b) hinder social integration?

 

Where do you draw the line? In the North of England, many will have Viking ancestry. Do they define themselves as British Norwegian? Why not? At what point is it accepted that you become the nationality of the country you live in? 1 generation? 10 generations?  It is unlikely that anyone can trace their ancestry back entirely to one single country only, therefore there has to be another definition for nationality.

 

 

It's unlikely to be something that comes up in casual conversation and if it does someone is probably asking you about your ethnic heritage, so answer English just gets you "yeah, but where are you FROMMM?" question in response.

So it's unlikely to have any impact on social integration IMO.

 

My point about the americans is that's widely accepted there and doesn't seem to hinder social integration or be a problem, so why is it a problem for you?

[Flanker7 20]

We are getting a bit serious about this, sometimes it means something but many times it don't.

Which and under what circumstances you identify yourself with is a moveable feast.

Tebbits 'cricket' test was a classic. He didn't ask  the 'football' test. He didn't ask the music test. There will be different answers to all these depending on the individual. I know a local licensee who loves rugby and supports anyone of the 6 nations. He has grounds to claim membership,  by marrage, domicile and  ancestry, to every one. His choice varies from game to game and often from  score to score.

Rory McIlroy got well and truely snookered with the Irish test.

You can bet that when many return to their ancestral home countries they support Europe for golf, Britain for athletics, England for football and maybe music.

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by Flanker7