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France is in chaos .

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14 minutes ago, geared said:

 

I get the feeling thats just enraging people even further though.

He’s not the first president in that position, neither are the protesters, nor is the situation unprecedented. By very far.

 

This is as much of a personal test for Macron as for the protesters. Giscard d’Estaing, Mitterand, Chirac, Sarkozy, Hollande all went through it, several times over. It’s literally a rite of presidential passage.

 

He’s got more to lose, so if they last the distance, they’ll eventually get ‘something’.

 

But even if they do, where exactly, on the scale of ‘powder to the eyes’ to ‘genuine concessions’, will be even more of a debate, than whether this protest is really “chaos” (it’s not, by a long shot).

Edited by L00b

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11 minutes ago, L00b said:

He’s not the first president in that position, neither are the protesters, nor is the situation unprecedented. By very far.

Indeed and while resentment may be high, by the looks of it, it hasn't reached the same levels we saw in the UK recently:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_England_riots

 

 

11 minutes ago, L00b said:

But even if they do, where exactly, on the scale of ‘powder to the eyes’ to ‘genuine concessions’, will be even more of a debate, than whether this protest is really “chaos” (it’s not, by a long shot).

If the sentiment in France is anything like that of the UK, there's going to be a lot of people getting locked up for a long time.

 

Probably not much else.

Edited by Magilla

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46 minutes ago, L00b said:

 

But even if they do, where exactly, on the scale of ‘powder to the eyes’ to ‘genuine concessions’, will be even more of a debate, than whether this protest is really “chaos” (it’s not, by a long shot).

 

I recon he'll just delay the taxes, kick the problem down the road a few years to appease everyone.

 

Really whats needed is someone to come in with some brutal budget cuts, get the general tax bill lower and cut the fat from the public sector.

I don't think the public have the stomach for that to be honest.

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15 minutes ago, geared said:

 

I recon he'll just delay the taxes, kick the problem down the road a few years to appease everyone.

I’d like to think he won’t. At least, not effectively*

 

*some assembly powder-to-the-eyes required

15 minutes ago, geared said:

Really whats needed is someone to come in with some brutal budget cuts, get the general tax bill lower and cut the fat from the public sector.

I don't think the public have the stomach for that to be honest.

That’s exactly what he’s doing. He’s only been at it a year or so, has arguably done a ton and half towards it already (much warnings from the political class that he’s going at it too hard too soon)...but there’s a mountain of it to go at, the by-product of decades’ worth of can-kicking.

 

The hi-vis protest is the public not having the stomach for it.

 

There’ll be much more yet, by the time he gets done. If he manages to get done.

Edited by L00b

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You can understand why they're so against fuel price rises though, a large percentage of cars on the road is Diesel, now very much in the firing line due to air quality issues.

Most cities now have a CAZ charge to pay, for the average motorist it must feel like they're being had from all sides.

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3 minutes ago, geared said:

a large percentage of cars on the road is Diesel, now very much in the firing line due to air quality issues.

 

And have been for some time. I got a ticket for driving a diesel car through Paris over three years ago.

 

Fuel protests are a tricky one for progressives. Higher taxes discourage fossil fuel use which is a good thing but then they disproportionately hit the poor.

 

That is why fuel protests are generally started and organised by the right and tax payers alliances. France however, is a mass of political contradictions and alliances! 😮

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1 minute ago, Top Cats Hat said:

And have been for some time. I got a ticket for driving a diesel car through Paris over three years ago.

That long??

 

I assume now the CAZ has been in place for a while the air quality is significantly better?

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18 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

And have been for some time. I got a ticket for driving a diesel car through Paris over three years ago.

 

Fuel protests are a tricky one for progressives. Higher taxes discourage fossil fuel use which is a good thing but then they disproportionately hit the poor.

 

That is why fuel protests are generally started and organised by the right and tax payers alliances. France however, is a mass of political contradictions and alliances! 😮

France fell in love with diesels in the 70s, years and years and years before the U.K.

 

Given that context, it’s not easy changing what is, effectively, a culturally-ingrained consumption choice, with associated economic (social also, to an extent) consequences: the largest volume of pumps across the country is diesel, the largest volume of 2nd hand cars is diesel, the least-depreciating models of any make and vintage are diesel, etc, etc.

 

Macron is trying to bootstrap a change towards cleaner alternatives, using fuel duty as an incentive (amongst other fiscal purposes). The conundrum is, neither is the market offer ready, nor is the consuming public able, to follow his wishes.

Edited by L00b

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8 minutes ago, geared said:

That long??

It was actually two and a half years ago.

 

I know, because it was a month after the EU referendum and every single French person I met wanted to know why the EU country with undoubtedly the best deal of all members (out of Schengen, out of €uro zone, big rebate etc.) had voted to leave.

 

They all thought we were completely crazy! 😳

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I'm not surprised  we spent a a few weeks over there in the summer their cost of living is a lost higher than ours the fuel is a lot more their shopping is a lot more costly than ours their wages are less they are in  a pretty bad way financially the only things that are cheaper there is fags and booze   

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1 hour ago, Shogun said:

the fuel is a lot more    

That's absolute rubbish!

 

Their full is 5p a litre cheaper than ours now and up until recently was over 30p a litre cheaper.

 

Fuel in France has been cheaper than fuel in the UK for at least 30 years!

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49 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

That's absolute rubbish!

 

Their full is 5p a litre cheaper than ours now and up until recently was over 30p a litre cheaper.

 

Fuel in France has been cheaper than fuel in the UK for at least 30 years!

It could have been expensive, if Shogun's experience was in touristy areas in the summer season.

 

It's extortionate in the South of France at peak season (everything there, is), and generally extortionate on motorways (relative to supermarkets and branded petrol stations) like in the UK.

 

Although yes, generally cheaper than in the UK for very many years indeed, and the UK fuel duty portion is higher.

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