Increase in knife crime.

[iansheff 88]

A judge in London has let a teen filmed smashing car with zombie knife to walk free from court. What planet are some of these judges on, ok he had a troubled upbringing so do a lot of other kids but they don't try to smash their way into a car with a big knife. No wonder the police have slammed the decision not to lock him up, what deterrent is there when judges let them walk out of court?  He walked free on Tuesday following the sentencing hearing on the condition he stays at home at night with his mother for the next nine months.

 

Picture from the report on Yahoo.

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/police-officers-slam-decision-allowing-235300244.html

[El Cid 216]

19 minutes ago, iansheff said:

A judge in London has let a teen filmed smashing car with zombie knife to walk free from court.

1

Perhaps the judge knew that if the teen was locked up for xx years, he would just come out a more hardened criminal?

[truman 10]

Just now, El Cid said:

Perhaps the judge knew that if the teen was locked up for xx years, he would just come out a more hardened criminal?

Why bother with prisons at all then? This guy is an obvious danger to the public... wonder what comment the judge will have if he (the lad) managed to stab/kill someone next time..

[El Cid 216]

14 minutes ago, truman said:

Why bother with prisons at all then? This guy is an obvious danger to the public... wonder what comment the judge will have if he (the lad) managed to stab/kill someone next time..

It does seem like a stupid crime to commit, why is the cycle lying in the road? I assume at least one of those complaining will have the gumption to complain officially about the sentence. 

 

https://www.gov.uk/ask-crown-court-sentence-review

[alchresearch 214]

14 minutes ago, El Cid said:

It does seem like a stupid crime to commit, why is the cycle lying in the road?

The cycle is lying in the middle of the road because the fella with the knife was cycling along when the car just pulled out on him.  I can't recall if he was knocked off his bike or swerved to avoid the car.  But there's video footage of it knocking around the net.

 

It doesn't excuse the road rage behviour with a knife though.  But then again with all the knife attacks at the moment I've occasionally thought about carrying something to protect myself.   At the moment its a giant maglite torch in my shoulder bag, but only because I walk through an unlit park after work.

 

ETA here's the footage from when it happened in June.  For some reason its paused at a critical moment which messes up the continuity a bit, I can't make out if the bike stops first to confront the driver:
 

 

 

There's more about the story here:

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/27/cyclist-filmed-pulling-zombie-knife-smashing-car-window-terrifying/

Edited November 28, 2018 by alchresearch

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, iansheff said:

A judge in London has let a teen filmed smashing car with zombie knife to walk free from court. What planet are some of these judges on, ok he had a troubled upbringing so do a lot of other kids but they don't try to smash their way into a car with a big knife. No wonder the police have slammed the decision not to lock him up, what deterrent is there when judges let them walk out of court?  He walked free on Tuesday following the sentencing hearing on the condition he stays at home at night with his mother for the next nine months.

 

Picture from the report on Yahoo.

 

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/police-officers-slam-decision-allowing-235300244.html

I seem to be banging my head against a brick wall today on here, but if you are going to criticise the sentence, might it not be sensible to post what the sentence in question actually was? A two year suspended prison sentence (with a number of conditions attached) isn’t “walking free” as you put it. 

[truman 10]

6 minutes ago, Sheffield87 said:

I seem to be banging my head against a brick wall today on here, but if you are going to criticise the sentence, might it not be sensible to post what the sentence in question actually was? A two year suspended prison sentence (with a number of conditions attached) isn’t “walking free” as you put it. 

Don't you think this guy is a danger to the public? Isn't that what prison is for..protecting the public..?  

[iansheff 88]

16 minutes ago, Sheffield87 said:

I seem to be banging my head against a brick wall today on here, but if you are going to criticise the sentence, might it not be sensible to post what the sentence in question actually was? A two year suspended prison sentence (with a number of conditions attached) isn’t “walking free” as you put it. 

Read the post again carefully and at the bottom it says:

 He walked free on Tuesday following the sentencing hearing on the condition he stays at home at night with his mother for the next nine months.

[Guest]

Yes, protecting the public is of course important - but are you suggesting that everyone convicted of a violent offence should be imprisoned? As it stands, the vast majority of prisons are overflowing, not fit for purpose and provide very little by way of rehabilitation. Often the courts consider that a suspended sentence offers more in the way of punishment and opportunity for rehabilitation than a relatively short prison sentence. In addition, there is of course the possibility that he will serve that sentence if he commits any further offences in the next two years or fails to comply with the conditions attached to the order. 

 

Having taken into account his guilty plea (to some of the charges), his age - he was only 17 at the time, the lack of serious harm, any personal mitigation and the fact he had already spent 6 months in prison on remand, the judge arrived at that sentence. The BBC are reporting that it has been referred to the Attorney General so it may be sent to the Court of Appeal in the coming months. 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46370271

 

14 minutes ago, iansheff said:

Read the post again carefully and at the bottom it says:

 He walked free on Tuesday following the sentencing hearing on the condition he stays at home at night with his mother for the next nine months.

Yes I read the post the first time round, but it wrongly implies that was the only condition attached to the suspended sentence order. A two year suspended sentence isn’t “walking free”. 

 

Such inaccurate reporting simply seeks to provoke public outrage and does nothing to actually increase understanding of the justice system. 

 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Guest

[truman 10]

8 minutes ago, Sheffield87 said:

Yes, protecting the public is of course important - but are you suggesting that everyone convicted of a violent offence should be imprisoned? As it stands, the vast majority of prisons are overflowing, not fit for purpose and provide very little by way of rehabilitation. Often the courts consider that a suspended sentence offers more in the way of punishment and opportunity for rehabilitation than a relatively short prison sentence. In addition, there is of course the possibility that he will serve that sentence if he commits any further offences in the next two years or fails to comply with the conditions attached to the order. 

 

 

I haven't said that .....London appears to be in the middle of a knife crime epidemic at the moment..wouldn't this have been a good point to show that it is not going to be tolerated? You can get 4 years just for carrying a knife let alone threatening someone with it.. what signal is this sending out to others who want to do this?

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, truman said:

I haven't said that .....London appears to be in the middle of a knife crime epidemic at the moment..wouldn't this have been a good point to show that it is not going to be tolerated? You can get 4 years just for carrying a knife let alone threatening someone with it.. what signal is this sending out to others who want to do this?

As I mentioned above, the courts often consider that a suspended sentence, with conditions, is more onerous and more of a punishment than an immediate prison sentence. In my experience many of those who are convicted would rather sit in prison watching TV and playing pool than doing unpaid work, attending meetings with their probation officer and staying at home during the evenings when their friends are all down the pub. 

 

Locking people up costs a great deal of money and yet offers little in the way of helping people  change their behaviour and working towards leading a productive lifestyle. 

 

Prison is is often the right choice, and is sometimes the only choice, but on other occasions offenders can be better dealt with in the community. I’m not saying this is one of those occasions, but the judge who heard all of the evidence must be better placed than those on a public forum. 

 

The high re-conviction rates in this country are surely clear enough evidence that for most people, prison is not an effective deterrent. 

 

[max 13]

The problem arises because the public, driven by news reports such as this, see just the crime, victim and offender. They do not have to consider the same parameters as a court does such as sentencing guidelines, handed down by the Home Office, availability of prison spaces, likelihood of re-offending, etc.

 

Everything is not black and white.