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The Conservative Party. All discussion here please

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11 minutes ago, Anna B said:

They weren't dealing with an epidemic. If it had been kept up to scratch in the first place, maybe it wouldn't have been necessary to just throw money at it.

I’m not talking about any funding that has gone to the NHS due to the epidemic. 
 

The Conservatives were already giving more money to the NHS than proposed in the 2015 and 2017 Labour manifestos back in 2018

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40 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

I’m not talking about any funding that has gone to the NHS due to the epidemic. 
 

The Conservatives were already giving more money to the NHS than proposed in the 2015 and 2017 Labour manifestos back in 2018

Robin. Have a look at this graph from the Kings Fund site titled 'NHS spending: squeezed as never before'. 

 

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/blog/2015/10/nhs-spending-squeezed-never

 

Note the massive difference in NHS funding during Blair/Brown compared to what the Tories have done since.

 

As you can see even Thatcher did not have the nerve to do to the NHS what her successors have done to it since 2010.

 

Also, compare the level of funding during the Heath government(70-74). Then they were one nation moderate Tories, not the nasty right wing rabble they are now.

 

They claim they had to cut back due to the 2008 recession but it hasn't stopped them handing out massive handouts to their wealthy friends in the form of cuts to Corporation Tax and  Capital Gains Tax

 

Real annual average changes in UK NHS spending by governing party: 1951–2020

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What’s done is done and all we can hope is that lessons will be learned.

As far as the U.K. is concerned ,since Thatchers time we have failed to invest in our industry and manufacturing.

We have cut and outsourced key services ,many times to foreign ownership.

This to my mind was never a good policy but in normal times we could get away with it.

In abnormal times we can see that there is no slack in the system as we compete with the rest of the world for scarce resources.

To run the NHS understaffed and with 95% bed occupancy as the norm may have made financial sense,but now we can all see the cracks.

Stop cutting our services to the bone,and similarly businesses need some slack in the system if they are to be resilient.

 

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1 hour ago, BigPP said:

Robin. Have a look at this graph from the Kings Fund site titled 'NHS spending: squeezed as never before'. 

 

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/blog/2015/10/nhs-spending-squeezed-never

 

Note the massive difference in NHS funding during Blair/Brown compared to what the Tories have done since.

 

As you can see even Thatcher did not have the nerve to do to the NHS what her successors have done to it since 2010.

 

Also, compare the level of funding during the Heath government(70-74). Then they were one nation moderate Tories, not the nasty right wing rabble they are now.

 

They claim they had to cut back due to the 2008 recession but it hasn't stopped them handing out massive handouts to their wealthy friends in the form of cuts to Corporation Tax and  Capital Gains Tax

 

Real annual average changes in UK NHS spending by governing party: 1951–2020

What I said was that the Conservatives are  giving more money to the NHS than proposed in the 2015 and 2017 Labour manifestos. If the lower increase in spending is not down to the recession (which I very much doubt) then why didn't Labour pledge more? 

 

That graph is out of date btw - even before the extra money Boris has announced, NHS spending is increasing about 3.4% a year.  In terms of Corporation Tax and Capital Gains tax, that bought in extra revenue, so things like the NHS can be funded. 

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10 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

What I said was that the Conservatives are  giving more money to the NHS than proposed in the 2015 and 2017 Labour manifestos. If the lower increase in spending is not down to the recession (which I very much doubt) then why didn't Labour pledge more? 

 

That graph is out of date btw - even before the extra money Boris has announced, NHS spending is increasing about 3.4% a year.  In terms of Corporation Tax and Capital Gains tax, that bought in extra revenue, so things like the NHS can be funded. 

Robin. It is clear from the graph which party will adequately fund the NHS and it's not the Tories.  The  3.4%  increase is still below the 1950-2021 average. This is what the Kings Fund says: 

 

In the September 2019 Spending Round and March 2020 Spring Budget, the government announced increases to budgets for capital investment, public health and the education and training of the NHS workforce. But funding for these important areas of spending has not been determined beyond 2020/21. These budgets have come under substantial pressure in the past five years, as day-to-day spending on NHS services was prioritised instead. This has led, for example, to cuts in budgets for public health services and rapid deterioration in the condition of NHS buildings and equipment. 

While the new NHS funding deal will ease current pressures, it is not enough to both restore performance against key waiting times standards and deliver widespread changes to services to deliver better care. 

 

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

 

If you need proof of the damage the Tories have done to the NHS look at this.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50718869  Every major A&E misses wait target for first time. What a disgrace.

 

A&E figures

Waiting list graphic

Routine treatment graphic

Cancer graphic

 

As for cuts in Corporation Tax and Capital Gains tax bringing in extra revenue even Boris disagrees.

 

General election 2019: PM puts corporation tax cuts on hold to help fund NHS

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50454627

 

 

 

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Look, it’s obvious to even the simple.

 

Boris is showing leadership, Corbyn is just moaning for moanings sake

 

No amount of graphs, dodgy statistics and biased interpretation of the truth will change that.

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18 minutes ago, BigPP said:

Robin. It is clear from the graph which party will adequately fund the NHS and it's not the Tories.  The  3.4%  increase is still below the 1950-2021 average. This is what the Kings Fund says: 

 

In the September 2019 Spending Round and March 2020 Spring Budget, the government announced increases to budgets for capital investment, public health and the education and training of the NHS workforce. But funding for these important areas of spending has not been determined beyond 2020/21. These budgets have come under substantial pressure in the past five years, as day-to-day spending on NHS services was prioritised instead. This has led, for example, to cuts in budgets for public health services and rapid deterioration in the condition of NHS buildings and equipment. 

While the new NHS funding deal will ease current pressures, it is not enough to both restore performance against key waiting times standards and deliver widespread changes to services to deliver better care. 

 

https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/nhs-budget

 

If you need proof of the damage the Tories have done to the NHS look at this.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-50718869  Every major A&E misses wait target for first time. What a disgrace.

 

A&E figures

Waiting list graphic

Routine treatment graphic

Cancer graphic

 

As for cuts in Corporation Tax and Capital Gains tax bringing in extra revenue even Boris disagrees.

 

General election 2019: PM puts corporation tax cuts on hold to help fund NHS

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50454627

 

 

 

Great post BigPP.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, MillerMike said:

Look, it’s obvious to even the simple.

 

Boris is showing leadership, Corbyn is just moaning for moanings sake

 

No amount of graphs, dodgy statistics and biased interpretation of the truth will change that.

Let me know when our NHS staff have finally received all the personal protective equipment they've repeatedly requested.

Edited by The Joker

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How well is the NHS doing in Wales, under Labour?

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