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The Conservative Party. All discussion here please

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26 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Go back to the old system and limit places, or fully fund the students we need like nurses and doctors, engineers,  etc and let the rest pay for themselves.

So limit the choices of our young people.

 

Stick that on the side of a bus.

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12 minutes ago, phil752 said:

Sound like a plan, however many top schools are already up in arm with Oxford and Cambridge now taking students from other schools due to political pressure

Not exactly political pressure.

 

More a case of pressure from the education system, business and society at large to allocate places at Britain's top two universities to a wider group of people than the largely white, middle class candidates and a smattering of the sons and daughters of the very rich from outside the UK.

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25 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

So limit the choices of our young people.

 

Stick that on the side of a bus.

In case you hadn't realised it our young people's choices are already limited.

 

I'm sure some might want to be doctors, but simply can't afford it. Some want to be astro-physicists but don't have the brains for it. Some want to be Barristers but don't have the right contacts, etc. etc.  

 

Total choice is an illusion.

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18 hours ago, Anna B said:

Tuition fees have been a disaster, We managed without them for years, and now many many jobs don't justify the £50,000 ish price of a degree. Some Universities are now supposedly on the point of bankruptcy apparently, but they can still afford to pay the chancellors up to  £500,000. (Need for a maximum pay cap here don't you think.) Foreign students are sqeezing out our British ones because they pay up to £30,000 a year whereas ours 'only' pay £9,000. 

What happened ti investing in our young people?

 

As for franchises, they will all come up for renewal sooner or later, and renationalisation of some Utillities is now on the Tory radar as well, pinching Labours ideas seems to something of a trend with them,

 

Who introduced tuition fees? I think it was the party in red wasnt' it? 

 

You are right we managed without them for the 18 years before Blair but wasnt that a Conservative government? 

 

Yes all franchises will come up for renewal eventually but the next government would only have the power to change 2 of them and Corbyn has said he will renationalise the whole lot in one term of office, how is he going to do that?  

 

You ask for ideas that Corbyn has promised that are unworkable, you were given three and failed to respond to any of them properly.

I notice you didn't reference the maximum wage cap properly, his own economic advisor said it was unworkable and he refused to give a figure but still thought it was a good thing to say he would do. Where would you set it? 

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13 hours ago, Anna B said:

Too many graduates chasing too few jobs.  Fairly run-of-the-mill jobs now demand a degree, but without the graduate salary to justify £50 grand spent. You now need a degree to be a street sweeper. And if you've  spoken to any students lately thay are always moaning about the lack of contact time and support. They are quite resentful and a lot of them wished they'd never bothered.

More generalisations?   

 

Here's the requirements to be a street cleaner in Leeds:

 

Quote

Full clean driving licence
Manual handling training
Use of chemicals for cleaning purposes
Computing skills

Desirable qualifications

 

Customer Service Training
COSHH Qualifications in the use of cleaning chemicals
IOSH Certified Training
First Aid Trained
Knowledge of industrial cleaning machines and practices

 

And you don't need to spend "£50 grand" to get a degree.

 

 

Edited by alchresearch

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15 hours ago, Anna B said:

Too many graduates chasing too few jobs.  Fairly run-of-the-mill jobs now demand a degree, but without the graduate salary to justify £50 grand spent. You now need a degree to be a street sweeper. And if you've  spoken to any students lately thay are always moaning about the lack of contact time and support. They are quite resentful and a lot of them wished they'd never bothered.

If you think it costs you £50k to get a degree you need to do some research. 

 

The vast majority of people will end up contributing significantly less than that. If it does end up costing that much, it’s only because you’ve earned siginificantly more. 

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16 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

So limit the choices of our young people.

 

Stick that on the side of a bus.

Tax payers shouldn't be indulging people to have a "career" doing things that should really be considered hobbies and past times, like studying Norse literature or art.

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8 hours ago, Robin-H said:

If you think it costs you £50k to get a degree you need to do some research. 

 

The vast majority of people will end up contributing significantly less than that. If it does end up costing that much, it’s only because you’ve earned siginificantly more. 

£9 grand a year for 3 or 4 years, plus living costs so £50,000 sounds about right, and is an oft quoted figure by analysts. I know some students don't pay it all, so I assume the tax payer picks up the shortfall.

Alchresearch: 'You now need a degree to be a street sweeper' was not serious as you surely know, but an indication of jobs that now require a degree that would recently have been done by someone without.

Sheffbag: It's already been covered. (post 2482)Tony Blair and 'Labourlite' were as close to being Tory as you could get without a blue rosette, which is why Corbyn has taken Labour back to its roots.

Edited by Anna B

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26 minutes ago, Anna B said:

£9 grand a year for 3 or 4 years, plus living costs so £50,000 sounds about right, and is an oft quoted figure by analysts. I know some students don't pay it all, so I assume the tax payer picks up the shortfall.

Alchresearch: 'You now need a degree to be a street sweeper' was not serious as you surely know, but an indication of jobs that now require a degree that would recently have been done by someone without.

Sheffbag: It's already been covered. (post 2482)Tony Blair and 'Labourlite' were as close to being Tory as you could get without a blue rosette, which is why Corbyn has taken Labour back to its roots.

Anna no one wants labour to go back to its roots than me, but Corbyn has stabbed us in the back over Brexit .

Edited by Albert smith

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13 hours ago, Albert smith said:

Anna no one wants labour to go back to its roots than me, but Corbyn has stabbed us in the back over Brexit .

Corbyn is by nature a Brexiter, but he's listened to his party. When it comes to Brexit, just like Theresa May. he's in a position where he really can't win. 

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21 minutes ago, Anna B said:

Corbyn is by nature a Brexiter, but he's listened to his party. When it comes to Brexit, just like Theresa May. he's in a position where he really can't win. 

shame he doesn't listen to his electorate

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15 hours ago, Anna B said:

£9 grand a year for 3 or 4 years, plus living costs so £50,000 sounds about right, and is an oft quoted figure by analysts. I know some students don't pay it all, so I assume the tax payer picks up the shortfall.

Alchresearch: 'You now need a degree to be a street sweeper' was not serious as you surely know, but an indication of jobs that now require a degree that would recently have been done by someone without.

Sheffbag: It's already been covered. (post 2482)Tony Blair and 'Labourlite' were as close to being Tory as you could get without a blue rosette, which is why Corbyn has taken Labour back to its roots.

My bold - it has been calculated that in order to pay off a full graduate student loan you have to be earning approx £40K from year 1 of leaving uni and maintain that wage for the full period of payment. it is NOT "some students don't pay it all" . The IFS reported that 77% of students will have some or all of their "student debt" written off at the end of the period. Please acknowledge that your fake news is incorrect. 

 

So to go back to my orignal question then to you. Would you rather be in opposition with a socialist leader like JC or be in power with a more moderate leader and ideals.

 

Its still an one or the other situation so which you want, bearing in mind you cant do anything positive while in opposition.

 

 

 

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