Second referendum time? SF Poll

[BrexitGuy 0]

24 minutes ago, RJRB said:

I can almost hear the trumpets playing in the background and the strains of Rule Britannia.

However just explain a little more please.

The probable shape of Brexit is a little clearer now.

Does it resemble what you voted for?

Which of the likely options controls “unnecessary immigration”,whatever that may mean.

Are you agreeing that some immigration is both necessary and desirable.

I do agree THAT was a major factor in the vote though many Brexiteers are in denial about this.

If you are such a staunch democrat then accept that our view is every bit as valid as yours ,and it may be that a further referendum is the only way to break the deadlock caused by the 2016 referendum.

 

Do the strains of Rule Britannia offend you? They dont offend me x

Im at a loss why you would need any of the above explained. Unnecessary immigration is when we, as a nation are told exactly how many immigrants or refugees we must accept. That is unnecessary immigration. We must have control at this side to ensure that any mass influx does not jeopardise the life quality of tax paying British citizens, which almost certainly will effect the NHS and the benefits system because contrary to popular belief, not all immigrants are doctors. And yes, I do agree that immigration is also desirable providing that the people wishing to become part of the UK are willing and able to contribute towards their residence. As for the unfortunate people fleeing war and strife, then again the influx must be proportional. The probable shape of Brexit is, well you tell me.....  Because nobody actually knows, but that is politics and does not form part of the desire to leave.  Yes, I do believe in democracy and as I stated earlier any change or rerun would be acceptable in my eyes because we all have the power to vote and the duty to accept the populist. 

I understand that Brexiteers aren't too popular with remainers, but at the end of the day we should all have one common goal, and that is fairness to those who have worked and are still working to create a way of life that isnt taxed and dictated to by regime that isnt even a state. If the younger generations wish to become a multi-state of coffee shops and cheek kissing eurocrats then they will have their chance in future votes, but at the minute theres still a lot of people alive in the UK that have very good memories and hold a lot of respect for those who ensured the soppy numpties nowadays even have a vote. 

 

[RJRB 688]

Back to basics.

Whilst our country is by no means perfect for everyone there is nowhere else that I would wish to live,whichever political party is in power.

However,the areas in which we fail I attribute very largely to our own governments and not to some powers wielded by the EU.

I just do not recognise  the supposed conflict between our sovereign aims and those of the other member states ,and find some of the anti EU stories reported in The Sun,or Express laughable.

My vote is for mutual peace,prosperity and believe this is best served by working with our near neighbours and having a say in its’ future direction.

I just do not believe that we will benefit on balance by giving up the years of negotiations,and venturing forth into this brave new world painted by the likes of Johnson ,Farage and Rees Mogg.

 

 

 

[Phanerothyme 12]

4 hours ago, helloitsonly said:

ok good for you and without being rude its not really any of your business, you have to accept the result which it looks like you do. unlike others.

I do accept the result. What I am sad about is my children, who have British passports, have lost the automatic right to live and work across the whole continent, including the countries where half their relatives live.  So it very much is my business. Out of the four people in our house, one had a vote.

It's decision  even if it is it's an inward looking, isolationist and populist decision, with a cigarette paper thin majority.

It's just a shame the British political establishment wasn't up to the task of considering the national interest and working together to distentangle the UK from 40 years worth of economic, industrial, governmental, intelligence and law enforcement cooperation, and has now delivered this country into the lap of uncertainty and division.

I still have an EU passport, but when I emigrated to this country I was given indefinite leave to remain. I now discover that the home office hasn't kept any record of this or any of the hundreds of "Boarding Cards" I filled out as a non-EU national landing at Heathrow during the 70s and 80s. So despite my immigration status having been settled between two non-EU countries in 1970, I now find myself  required to re-establish my immigration status, and "prove" my right to live here.

 

I was toying with the idea of a British passport when my country of birth finally permitted dual nationality, but given that the former mayor of Ipswich was refused one, and the cost, I think the one I have now is a good deal more useful.

 

[*_ash_* 88]

14 hours ago, Halibut said:

Bugger politeness. The people were lied to and manipulated and it's now emerged that Brexit of whatever form will be a total bloody disaster.

 

Sounds like 1930s Germany (to quote remainers' common dialogue in here on other aspects of Britain)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[woodview 10]

20 minutes ago, Harryfawlty said:

My sister has a German husband.

 

I logged onto Facebook last week to discover that they had emigrated to Western Australia precisely because of the uncertainty relating to his immigration status.

 

So, that’s two talented, highly qualified individuals chased out of the U.K. by our lack of clarity over Brexit.

Firstly, it's been made perfectly clear for a long time that any eu nationals living here are welcome to stay. Second their marital status would concrete that also.

Plus, it's interesting that they are moving to Oz, which doesn't have free movement of people with the eu .

I know lots of eu nationals, who are all perfectly happy here. They aren't bexit supporters, but they know it doesn't affect them one jot.

[Magilla 510]

1 hour ago, Harryfawlty said:

So, that’s two talented, highly qualified individuals chased out of the U.K. by our lack of clarity over Brexit.

I know a couple who have have just started their emigration to Oz.

 

He works in content creation/entertainment, she's a consultant in the NHS.

 

Both are British!

 

Their main reason was Brexit. She wasn't so keen, but since the Brexit vote working for the NHS is becoming unbearable (apparently), so has changed tune.

 

Paperwork done, they've been accepted and are going next year.

 

1 hour ago, woodview said:

Plus, it's interesting that they are moving to Oz, which doesn't have free movement of people with the eu .

Not really, since in all practical terms they are free to travel between the UK & Oz, not to mention it's the other side of the world.

 

What's really interesting is that Oz says it will be pursuing free movement as part of any future trade deal with the UK.

Edited December 9, 2018 by Magilla

[woodview 10]

1 hour ago, Harryfawlty said:

They aren’t moving. They’ve moved.

 

And taken all of their talent with them.

 

 It really doesn’t matter what you think, or how you try to spin it. Talented EU nationals can work just about anywhere. What makes you think they’d choose to stay here at the moment?

It does matter what I think. This is a forum, and we post what we think, and hopefully form that into a discussion.

Seeing as you only found out after the event on facebook, I'd be surprised if you were au-fait with all their thinking.

The fact I have lots of very talented eu friends living, working and planning to stay here, makes me think that.

47 minutes ago, Magilla said:

I know a couple who have have just started their emigration to Oz.

 

He works in content creation/entertainment, she's a consultant in the NHS.

 

Both are British!

 

Their main reason was Brexit. She wasn't so keen, but since the Brexit vote working for the NHS is becoming unbearable (apparently), so has changed tune.

 

Paperwork done, they've been accepted and are going next year.

 

Not really, since in all practical terms they are free to travel between the UK & Oz, not to mention it's the other side of the world.

 

What's really interesting is that Oz says it will be pursuing free movement as part of any future trade deal with the UK.

Yes, but as you probably know, Oz has been a big draw for NHS staff for a long time. I can understand the strain of working in it pushing people away, regardless of brexit or not.

There isn't free movement to work in Oz it's visa based.

Interesting you say they want  deal with us, you normally paint us as the lepers of the world??? 😀

[woodview 10]

2 minutes ago, Harryfawlty said:

The ones that leave will be the most talented ones.

 

Your opinion matters not one jot to the many thousands of EU nationals that are choosing to leave the U.K.  Don’t flatter yourself that it does.

 

By the end of the week, we are very likely have no government, no credible plan for the future and a second referendum to tear the country even further apart. We are a country in turmoil.

 

I do hope you leavers think that worthwhile.

 

In the meantime, I’ll keep on encouraging my two talented offspring to seek their futures elsewhere. 

The main 'tearing apart' is by disgruntled Remainers. Are you propsing people shouldn't vote for what they believe to be right and just keep quiet?

I wish your kids well, wherever they choose to live and work. I hope they have a more positive outlook on life too.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

6 minutes ago, Harryfawlty said:

Why ordinary working people think that they have common cause with David Davis, Boris and Jacob is beyond me. 

A number of working class people have always voted for right wing options. If they hadn't, we would have had far fewer Conservative governments over the past 100 years.

[apelike 10]

14 minutes ago, Harryfawlty said:

We are a country in turmoil.

With that I must agree but.. Who were the highly educated people who initially decided to have a referendum and yet didnt take into account that a leave vote was a possibility and what turmoil it may cause? A clue.. they are normally known as MP's.

[woodview 10]

12 minutes ago, Harryfawlty said:

The tearing apart is almost entirely down to the hard brexiters pushing for something that the country patently never voted for.

 

Why ordinary working people think that they have common cause with David Davis, Boris and Jacob is beyond me. 

Why assume that people do align themselves to those hard brexiters? In my experience, they don't.

Propogating an image of extremism on the majority of normal people, in order to try to make a point is counter-productive. People either switch off, or the ones who sadly believe it, feel they have to take unnecessary measures, such as your sister.

6 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

A number of working class people have always voted for right wing options. If they hadn't, we would have had far fewer Conservative governments over the past 100 years.

A sad consequence of democracy.

[spilldig 188]

19 minutes ago, Harryfawlty said:

The tearing apart is almost entirely down to the hard brexiters pushing for something that the country patently never voted for.

 

Why ordinary working people think that they have common cause with David Davis, Boris and Jacob is beyond me. 

A lot of " ordinary " people don't trust labor, and not without reason I reckon.