Tram expansion in Sheffield

[Planner1 428]

Wouldn't it have been a great boon for investors for Heart of the City if the council also announced better public transport infrastructure to align with the investment?

 

The number of opportunities missed by our council is enormous.

 

 

What public transport infrastructure do you think is needed that can be linked to that project and where would the money would come from?

 

If a transport scheme costs over £5m, the money normally comes from the Government, with some local contribution (normally up to 50% depending on the scheme).

 

The city centre is already well served by public transport and there isn't any need for major government investment in public transport to support the Heart of the City scheme.

[alchemist 35]

What's the business case for £40 billion to be spent on crossrail 2 in London? It's never going to be paid back. Public transport projects aren't about making a profit.

 

The business case is that its in London and the little darlings dont like changing trains

[Planner1 428]

crying out for decent public transport to the AMP sites, with links to the Universities and the railway station

 

The basic problem is that not enough people work there to justify better public transport.

 

If there was a commercial case for better bus services the operators would already be doing it.

 

 

Rail based mass transit like trains, trams or tram trains would need massive amounts of passengers to justify the huge investment.

 

The AMP is also very well located for access to strategic roads, so how many people would actually use public transport to get there?

 

---------- Post added 19-09-2018 at 15:17 ----------

 

Hmmm...

 

... all interesting stuff... but it's clearly not what our beloved 'leaders' want.

 

Put yourself in their position. They've worked hard to get where they are by manipulating the system.

 

Errrm, the Leaders are the Councillors, who you elect......

[ads36 214]

The basic problem is that not enough people work there to justify better public transport.

 

roughly 2000 people? (and growing, fast. i just met another 10 graduate engineers on their induction tour)

 

plus the 15,000 people who'll be living in Waverley before the end of the decade.

 

there's a train line, about 800m away. it's in use, but quiet, a 'waverley station' would be cheaper, and more capable than just widening the parkway - guess which one will be proposed/planned first?

 

Rail based mass transit like trains, trams or tram trains would need massive amounts of passengers to justify the huge investment.

 

why do we never include the cost-benefit of not building another sodding motorway?

Edited September 19, 2018 by ads36

[geared 303]

If that investment takes an additional 10,000 cars of the road each day it will have an enormous benefit to the environment. It will also directly benefit the people of Sheffield and the businesses in the city centre.

 

The environment and particularly air quality is an extremely hot topic, to the extent that sooner or later motorists will be taxed for driving in city limits.

 

You would have thought public transport systems that seek to take large numbers of cars off the road would be given priority, relaxing some of the financial requirements to help bring them to fruition, for the good of the environment.

 

Clearly not, we'll get taxed through the nose and told to use the inadequate public transport.

[Planner1 428]

why do we never include the cost-benefit of not building another sodding motorway?

 

The "do nothing" case is always part of the analysis in a DfT business case.

 

---------- Post added 19-09-2018 at 16:47 ----------

 

roughly 2000 people? (and growing, fast. i just met another 10 graduate engineers on their induction tour)

 

plus the 15,000 people who'll be living in Waverley before the end of the decade.

 

there's a train line, about 800m away. it's in use, but quiet, a 'waverley station' would be cheaper, and more capable than just widening the parkway - guess which one will be proposed/planned first?

 

 

 

why do we never include the cost-benefit of not building another sodding motorway?

 

There's nowhere near enough people to justify mass transit at the moment.

 

Will people who live at Waverley use public transport? Or will they live there because of the good road links?

 

SCC are looking into the potential for mass transit to Waverley the future including utilising the rail line as you mention.

 

Widening the Parkway down near J33 is already on the cards. Rotherham Council are currently developing a business case to submit to DfT.

[geared 303]

There's nowhere near enough people to justify mass transit at the moment.

 

Will people who live at Waverley use public transport? Or will they live there because of the good road links?

 

SCC are looking into the potential for mass transit to Waverley the future including utilising the rail line as you mention.

 

It'd be a great location for a park & ride, technically in Rotherham council area is it not?? So any cars that did use it wouldn't even enter the city limits.

[Blue Day 10]

 

Widening the Parkway down near J33 is already on the cards. Rotherham Council are currently developing a business case to submit to DfT.

 

Funny isn’t it. Extra capacity required so we widen the road.

 

However if we left the road and spent on public transport, the roads would eventually be so busy people would look to the alternative.

[tzijlstra 11]

What public transport infrastructure do you think is needed that can be linked to that project and where would the money would come from?

 

If a transport scheme costs over £5m, the money normally comes from the Government, with some local contribution (normally up to 50% depending on the scheme).

 

The city centre is already well served by public transport and there isn't any need for major government investment in public transport to support the Heart of the City scheme.

 

In general - this is exactly why our councils aren't moving ahead with these schemes, because their civil servants tell them it is not feasible. Sheffield does a great job at this and not thinking ahead and showing leadership is a direct result.

 

The city centre isn't well served by public transport to support the Heart of the City scheme, even here in Hillsborough. If I want to go to work in Chesterfield on a regular basis by public transport I have to calculate another 20 minutes on top of my commute. If I worked in the city and lived in Fulwood, the same thing applies. If I live in Hillsborough and have to get to the AMRC/AMP I am far better off with the car. The network could and should be far more extensive for a city this size.

[Planner1 428]

It'd be a great location for a park & ride, technically in Rotherham council area is it not?? So any cars that did use it wouldn't even enter the city limits.

 

You need a big site for a strategic park and ride site. 1000 spaces or so. The problem would be, how do you get a fast and frequent link bus service to where people want to go? Parkway is congested at peak times, so would be difficult to run an attractive bus service along it into Sheffield without somehow providing a bus lane.

 

---------- Post added 19-09-2018 at 19:52 ----------

 

Funny isn’t it. Extra capacity required so we widen the road.

 

However if we left the road and spent on public transport, the roads would eventually be so busy people would look to the alternative.

 

I dont think that’s the case. Drivers would just seek a quicker route, probably through places we’d prefer them not to go.

 

Various studies have shown that even if public transport were free, most drivers wouldn't use it. Buses don’t tend to attract car users at all.

 

Not all road users can use public transport. There’s a lot of freight movements and people travelling to do work, etc, etc

 

Having better public transport is a nice thing to do, but improvements to the road network are also necessary as traffic grows.

[Mr Bloke 1,445]

You need a big site for a strategic park and ride site. 1000 spaces or so. The problem would be, how do you get a fast and frequent link bus service to where people want to go? Parkway is congested at peak times, so would be difficult to run an attractive bus service along it into Sheffield without somehow providing a bus lane.

Hmmm... that's a good one...

 

... now if only the council had a planning department whose job it was to come up with solutions to problems like this.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

In general - this is exactly why our councils aren't moving ahead with these schemes, because their civil servants tell them it is not feasible. Sheffield does a great job at this and not thinking ahead and showing leadership is a direct result.

 

The city centre isn't well served by public transport to support the Heart of the City scheme, even here in Hillsborough. If I want to go to work in Chesterfield on a regular basis by public transport I have to calculate another 20 minutes on top of my commute. If I worked in the city and lived in Fulwood, the same thing applies. If I live in Hillsborough and have to get to the AMRC/AMP I am far better off with the car. The network could and should be far more extensive for a city this size.

 

No public transport system in the world can cope with individual journey requirements from one suburb to a border industrial area. They are not good for that- they are good at moving the masses into and out of the City Centre.

 

Bus services in the west of the city are generally good.

If you live in Fulwood and work in the City get a bike its faster. If lazy get a Brompton.

As you are invariably in the same traffic jam, cars are not particular faster at rush hour than a bus.

 

Everyone's needs and circumstances are different, public transport is never going to be an answer for everyone but it should aspire to be an attractive alternative to most.