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Tram expansion in Sheffield

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I have been rewatching that brilliant series Yes Minister/Prime Minister and that argument sounds VERY familiar :)

 

Sounds just like the airport farce. Remove facilities so it can't be used then claim lack of use as grounds for closure.

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What kind of business case is needed. There appear to be enough people living and working there to make use of public transport, they don't use it because it doesn't exist, so because they don't use it it doesn't get built? :roll:

 

You didn't address this Planner1...

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You didn't address this Planner1...

 

Yes I did in the first part of post #84.

 

Also post #74 mentioned that trial bus services had been provided, but had not been used, so have been withdrawn.

Edited by Planner1

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Yes I did in the first part of post #84.

 

Also post #74 mentioned that trial bus services had been provided, but had not been used, so have been withdrawn.

 

You talked about making a business case generally.

 

You didn't talk about your circular argument though.

 

No business case can be made because people don't use public transport from that location... I think you might even have said "they all have cars".

But of course they have cars and of course they don't use public transport. At the moment they have no choice.

So if you use that lack of choice as an argument to claim there is no business case then it's circular.

 

The trial might be relevant though, but... details?

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You talked about making a business case generally.

 

You didn't talk about your circular argument though.

 

No business case can be made because people don't use public transport from that location... I think you might even have said "they all have cars".

But of course they have cars and of course they don't use public transport. At the moment they have no choice.

So if you use that lack of choice as an argument to claim there is no business case then it's circular.

 

The trial might be relevant though, but... details?

 

Waverley:

Simply put, the current way of doing things(in the sticks) is to evaluate the current situation, make projections from the current situation and evaluate the impact of the new project.

Submissions are then made to Central Government/EU to pay for full scale plans to be drawn up.

Submissions are then made to Central Government/EU money or permission to borrow money.

 

There insufficient demand from either residential(population way too small) or commercial(far too small a workforce and demand at specific times). The developers are also not very forthcoming with releasing land for a very large P+R. As a guide the newest station in the are is Ilkeston pop. 40 000 and P+R.

 

Future demand will increase but figures are not seen to justify even a full scale plan-yet.

But things change:

The developers could pay for the plan.

When the passenger usage figures for the new half-hourly Worksop service come in it might encourage a review.

A new Nottingham/Worksop/Sheffield train service is possible after the Sheffield Station rebuild.

If Tram-train works it could be introduced on a quite dramatic scale linking with Rotherham, Barnsley, Meadowhall and Sheffield on existing lines.

 

Unfortunately the Government are very unlikely to release money or allow borrowing particularly as there has been considerable, expensive recent detailed work done on the abandoned Southern bus corridor route.

 

Local priority for heavy rail is to ensure the Hope Valley scheme starts- announcement soon.

Railway priority has unfortunately changed yet again with everything now having to be "HS2 ready"- this will impact the rebuilding of the route from Chesterfield into Sheffield, Sheffield Station South approach, platforms and electrification.

AND for those interested in Waverley a recent rediscovery of the importance of the Beighton route in enabling the building and operation of HS2 and local services.

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Waverley:

Simply put, the current way of doing things(in the sticks) is to evaluate the current situation, make projections from the current situation and evaluate the impact of the new project.

Submissions are then made to Central Government/EU to pay for full scale plans to be drawn up.

Submissions are then made to Central Government/EU money or permission to borrow money.

 

There insufficient demand from either residential(population way too small) or commercial(far too small a workforce and demand at specific times). The developers are also not very forthcoming with releasing land for a very large P+R. As a guide the newest station in the are is Ilkeston pop. 40 000 and P+R.

 

Future demand will increase but figures are not seen to justify even a full scale plan-yet.

But things change:

The developers could pay for the plan.

When the passenger usage figures for the new half-hourly Worksop service come in it might encourage a review.

A new Nottingham/Worksop/Sheffield train service is possible after the Sheffield Station rebuild.

If Tram-train works it could be introduced on a quite dramatic scale linking with Rotherham, Barnsley, Meadowhall and Sheffield on existing lines.

 

Unfortunately the Government are very unlikely to release money or allow borrowing particularly as there has been considerable, expensive recent detailed work done on the abandoned Southern bus corridor route.

 

Local priority for heavy rail is to ensure the Hope Valley scheme starts- announcement soon.

Railway priority has unfortunately changed yet again with everything now having to be "HS2 ready"- this will impact the rebuilding of the route from Chesterfield into Sheffield, Sheffield Station South approach, platforms and electrification.

AND for those interested in Waverley a recent rediscovery of the importance of the Beighton route in enabling the building and operation of HS2 and local services.

 

The only way, it appears, that these things work is where there’s a relationship between two private companies - the employer and a public transport provider. The partnership between Stagecoach in Barnsley and XPO works well. Of course it has its own unique context - it helps that they have large shifts with the staff coming from a few densely populated areas.

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