Climate Change thread

[altus 538]

27 minutes ago, FinBak said:

I'd put that figure at 0.0001%.  Yep, as low as that... if at all.!

 

If all humans suddenly died, there would still be climate change.

If that's the case, what's your explanation for temperature changes due to natural climate change having suddenly increased to about 10 times the fastest rate it's been for the previous 20000 years?

[FinBak 12]

2 minutes ago, altus said:

If that's the case, what's your explanation for temperature changes due to natural climate change having suddenly increased to about 10 times the fastest rate it's been for the previous 20000 years?

The Earth and it's Climate often go through many 'Sudden' changes. 

 

Earth Quakes and Volcanic eruptions (Sometimes beneath the sea) can make sudden changes.

[altus 538]

15 minutes ago, FinBak said:

The Earth and it's Climate often go through many 'Sudden' changes. 

 

Earth Quakes and Volcanic eruptions (Sometimes beneath the sea) can make sudden changes.

Individual events, such as a volcano, may cause a sudden temporary change which quickly reverts the the previous level (over say a year or two) - there are plenty of examples of that. Perhaps you could explain how they cause the the continued and accelerating increases in temperatures we've been seeing since 1900.

 

[WiseOwl182 10]

1 hour ago, altus said:

So what proportion of it do you reckon is down to human activities then? Even if natural changes match the fastest it has been in the last 20000 years then they may account for 10% at most.

I have no idea. Climate change scientists would only be guessing, so it's pointless for you or I to put a number on it. What I do know is that naturally occurring climate change did not suddenly just stop the moment humans started burning fossil fuels, as El Cid was trying to claim.

[El Cid 214]

2 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

And I'm not claiming that. I'm claiming it isn't down to human activities alone.

I would be interested in your figures, how have you worked it out?

[WiseOwl182 10]

2 hours ago, El Cid said:

I would be interested in your figures, how have you worked it out?

So you're STILL trying to claim that naturally occurring climate change doesn't exist??!

[altus 538]

4 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

I have no idea. Climate change scientists would only be guessing, so it's pointless for you or I to put a number on it.

They aren't only guessing though - they have climate models, etc.

 

The reason you don't want to attempt to put a number to it is you know you won't be able to justify it. Even if natural climate change was happening at the fastest rate it has in the last 20000 years it would only account for 10% of the temperature rise. There's still the other 90% to explain. You'd think all those with a vested interest in the fossil fuel industries would have produced a even vaguely plausible explanation of why it is natural if there was one.

 

What I do know is that naturally occurring climate change did not suddenly just stop the moment humans started burning fossil fuels, as El Cid was trying to claim.

I've never claimed that so don't try and use it as a rebuttal to my arguments.

[El Cid 214]

3 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

So you're STILL trying to claim that naturally occurring climate change doesn't exist??!

Using the term 'naturally occurring' is rather simplistic. Climate scientists will factor into their calculations, volcanism, solar output, orbital variation AND human factors.

There is no one factors that can be called 'naturally occurring', its a long list of things that affect the climate.

The human factors are the millions of acres of forests lost every year,  the increase in CO₂, methane and the list goes on.

The most recent substantial 'naturally occurring' cooling due to volcanism was the eruption of Mount Pinatubo in 1991, the second largest terrestrial eruption of the 20th century, affected the climate substantially, subsequently global temperatures decreased by about 0.5 °C for up to three years.

[WiseOwl182 10]

19 minutes ago, El Cid said:

Using the term 'naturally occurring' is rather simplistic. Climate scientists will factor into their calculations, volcanism, solar output, orbital variation AND human factors.

There is no one factors that can be called 'naturally occurring', its a long list of things that affect the climate.

The human factors are the millions of acres of forests lost every year,  the increase in CO₂, methane and the list goes on.

The most recent substantial 'naturally occurring' cooling due to volcanism was the eruption of Mount Pinatubo in 1991, the second largest terrestrial eruption of the 20th century, affected the climate substantially, subsequently global temperatures decreased by about 0.5 °C for up to three years.

It is very simple though. Climate change occurs because of naturally occurring and human causes. Glad to see you appear to no longer be denying the naturally occurring factors.

1 hour ago, altus said:

 

I've never claimed that so don't try and use it as a rebuttal to my arguments.

I never claimed you did. I was referring to El Cid, who is the whole reason I'm still getting dragged into this pointless 'debate'. All I pointed out (about 6 pages or so ago now) was that both naturally occurring and human factors are causing climate change, in response to El Cid's bizarre claims. I wish I hadn't bothered but I couldn't let such inaccuracies go unchallenged.

Edited March 3, 2019 by WiseOwl182

[Cyclone 10]

On 16/02/2019 at 17:34, WiseOwl182 said:

It's not "nonsense" that climate change has always happened with or without humans. The earth's climate has always changed in cycles. The debate is the extent to which modern civilisation is impacting it.

How much of a debate is there amongst the scientific community?  Because this was the contentious statement that you made.

On 16/02/2019 at 15:50, FinBak said:

Climate Change has happened since the Earth was born into existence.

 

Nothing humans do on the planet will ever change that.

 

Mother Nature.

But when you jumped in this was the post which you were actually supporting.

 

Which quite clearly does say that humans cannot change the planet.

 

Perhaps you should have seen the context before trying to score a point.

Context is king isn't it.  I'd encourage you to go back and read the exchange before you quoted #110 and stuck your oar in.

 

Funny how you can't let inaccuracies go unchallenged, but post #109 didn't interest you, whilst the obvious and correct rebuttal to it in post #110, that you felt needed correcting with a brief strawman argument that you have then continued for 6 pages.

Edited March 4, 2019 by Cyclone

[WiseOwl182 10]

30 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

How much of a debate is there amongst the scientific community?  Because this was the contentious statement that you made.

But when you jumped in this was the post which you were actually supporting.

 

Which quite clearly does say that humans cannot change the planet.

 

Perhaps you should have seen the context before trying to score a point.

Context is king isn't it.  I'd encourage you to go back and read the exchange before you quoted #110 and stuck your oar in.

 

Funny how you can't let inaccuracies go unchallenged, but post #109 didn't interest you, whilst the obvious and correct rebuttal to it in post #110, that you felt needed correcting with a brief strawman argument that you have then continued for 6 pages.

 I said:

 

"It's not "nonsense" that climate change has always happened with or without humans. The earth's climate has always changed in cycles. The debate is the extent to which modern civilisation is impacting it."

 

Post 109 said:

 

"Climate Change has happened since the Earth was born into existence.

 

Nothing humans do on the planet will ever change that.

 

Mother Nature."

 

 

Someone said it was "nonsense". But it isn't. Climate change has always happened and humans won't change that. We will add to it though.

Edited March 4, 2019 by WiseOwl182

[Mikes10 10]

Here is a 25 minute presentation of the planet's climate history by Richard Alley,  it really is worth watching.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujkcTZZlikg