The lawyer for the bomb suspects insists they are innocent..How does she know?

[Tony 10]

Cyclone, you are right, but I did say " I'm a big supporter of our security services and the largely unseen work that they do."

 

It should remain unseen unless it is in the public interest, but it's a bit hard to hide 250 policemen in NBC suits. I make no comment on if that was the correct strategy.

 

There are lots of issues here and none of them are easily resolved if they are capable of being resolved at all. We perhaps return back to that old bugbear of mine - press scaremongering in the pursuit of column inches.

[Twiglet 10]

I think the saddest thing is that another innocent man has been shot, what if he had also been killed? This must be having some effect on the way we are being seen by other countries,.

[Greybeard 10]

 

There are lots of issues here and none of them are easily resolved if they are capable of being resolved at all. We perhaps return back to that old bugbear of mine - press scaremongering in the pursuit of column inches.

 

You can't blame the press in isolation. This govt. and Blair in particular have been obsessed with media headlines since 1997; both running scared of them and brazenly trying to manipulate them. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this obsession has rubbed off onto the security services to some degree, and if the security services are suffering from a 'tarnished image' it's largely self-inflicted.

 

The police have said that a probability of as little as 5% of the information that led to the Forest Gate raid being true will lead to similar action in the furure, so there will be lots of opportunity for further false alarms. They'll just have to learn to grin and bear the flak arising from those, and ensure maximum publicity from their successes.

[Plain Talker 11]

I think the saddest thing is that another innocent man has been shot, what if he had also been killed? This must be having some effect on the way we are being seen by other countries,.

 

we've had certain rightwing group members on here crowing about the police's success, in this case.. and yet there is no evidence against them, and they have been released without charge.

 

It's horrendous, just like the De Menendes case in stockwell.

 

PT

[KenH 10]

It's horrendous, just like the De Menendes case in stockwell.

I don't know how you can think that, since none of us know more than a few facts and some of those are conflicting.

 

If the police had some kind of credible evidence that there was a chemical device then they have to raid the premises. They can always apologise afterwards. If they believe that someone is about to harm them, or those that they are there to protect, then they have to shoot. There should only be a scandal if there turns out to be no real credible evidence and, even then, this should probably not reflect badly on the policeman who shot the suspect. If I was in his shoes and I was told that they might have a chemical weapon and might be able to blow themselves up then perhaps I would shoot him if he didn't do exactly as he was told. This may turn out to be what happens or may not, I don't know, but neither does anyone else.

[artisan 10]

anlaby street? artisan? Bartfarst - oh maybe not you, you might be on 'holiday' and thus unable to reply.

Besides, you might have some of that famous inside knowlkedge of yours that proves they were really guilty anyway. Y'know like the Birmingham six.

Just because there is no tangible evidence against them does not mean they are innocent.

Letting them go is a good idea. They will lead us to the evidence eventually.

Look at Al Zaquari, his own arrogance led to his downfall.

These kind of people are not nice guys, dont treat them as fools, no matter how much you fawn over them they will always despise you.

[Cyclone 10]

 

why bring the IRA into it? There's no threat there any more, or are you trying to justify todays Muslim terrorists by the 2-wrongs-make-a-right theory?

 

what a truly ridiculous thing to say, did you actually read my post?

 

The reason i 'brought' the IRA into it was to a draw a comparison between this time of apparently high terrorist threat and the last time the country faced a high level of terrorist activity. There is little to justify a different level of response as far as i'm aware, but this time we have emergency legislation, shoot to kill (innocent people apparently) policies, the loss of certain civil liberties, etc...

 

The question is a perfectly valid one, why are these response needed now if they were not needed the last time we faced a similar threat?

 

Edit - to add, Tony, I agree, I think that the police and the services do the best they can in the circumstances, it's mainly the politicians I don't trust and I see their responses to the situation in a very cynical light.

[Cyclone 10]

Just because there is no tangible evidence against them does not mean they are innocent.

Letting them go is a good idea. They will lead us to the evidence eventually.

Look at Al Zaquari, his own arrogance led to his downfall.

These kind of people are not nice guys, dont treat them as fools, no matter how much you fawn over them they will always despise you.

 

You'd best hope that no one in power ever takes a dislike to whatever group you can be identified as belonging too, because with your attitude you'd deserve whatever happened.

 

No tangible evidence in british law means innocent.

 

And unless you know something that everyone else doesn't, there's no evidence for them to lead anyone too.

[TwoFour 10]

Just because there is no tangible evidence against them does not mean they are innocent.

Letting them go is a good idea. They will lead us to the evidence eventually.

Look at Al Zaquari, his own arrogance led to his downfall.

These kind of people are not nice guys, dont treat them as fools, no matter how much you fawn over them they will always despise you.

 

Why don't you admit you were wrong and stop trying to squirm out of it. At least you could retain some dignity that way. The tip off was not credible as the police have now admitted.

 

 

BTW where is anlabystreet??

[artisan 10]

Why don't you admit you were wrong and stop trying to squirm out of it. At least you could retain some dignity that way. The tip off was not credible as the police have now admitted.

 

 

BTW where is anlabystreet??

I am not wrong, I am merely having a perod of incorrectitude

 

Anlaby Road is one of the main roads into Hull. presumably the street is off that road. What has that got to do with it?

[peterw 10]

We did but it all went off on the Emerald Isle

 

why bring the IRA into it? There's no threat there any more, or are you trying to justify todays Muslim terrorists by the 2-wrongs-make-a-right theory?

 

Perhaps the media today are better equipped to report stuff than when the IRA were active.

 

Perhaps the intelligence services allow more info out.

 

When the IRA first became active in England all newspapers (national, regional and weekly) agreed to a clamp-down on reporting bomb scares simply because to have done so would have encouraged even more of those ‘nutters’ who found their fun in making them. Some actual raids on suspects were reported as a matter of ‘public interest’, others were not.

[artisan 10]

When the IRA first became active in England all newspapers (national, regional and weekly) agreed to a clamp-down on reporting bomb scares simply because to have done so would have encouraged even more of those ‘nutters’ who found their fun in making them. Some actual raids on suspects were reported as a matter of ‘public interest’, others were not.

They agreed to this at Thatchers orders.

They were not reported as it would have shown up even more, the fact that the woman did not the first idea how to deal with it.

As with most thing she did she was blundering in the dark.

What little knowledge or ability she had was focused on the economy, and she made a balls of that as well.

It was only when intelligent men took the reins of power that some semblance of order returned to the country