It's Our City Campaign - Have you Signed?

[Annie Bynnol 612]

23 hours ago, dave_the_m said:

You are arguing (correct me if I'm wrong) that Sheffield people should not make any decision to move to a committee system unless they can first see how it worked out for a similar unitary authority.

 

Presumably you hold a similar opinion about Leeds, Newcastle etc : that their denizens should hold off on a decision until somewhere else has tried it first.

 

So can you explain to me how the first authority could ever change?

By taking a calculated risk based on evidence and examples of good practice.

A list is is not evidence, particularly if we are not told of the failed, chaotic nature of one and the involvement of the Auditor in the other.

 

 

 

[Robin-H 11]

57 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

By taking a calculated risk based on evidence and examples of good practice.

A list is is not evidence, particularly if we are not told of the failed, chaotic nature of one and the involvement of the Auditor in the other.

 

 

 

I'll ask again. 

 

How has the committee system been at fault in either of those examples?

 

[Annie Bynnol 612]

11 hours ago, Robin-H said:

I'll ask again. 

 

How has the committee system been at fault in either of those examples?

 

There are only two vaguely similar Councils on the list ie Unitary and Urban.

 

Brighton and Hove Council does not work. The inability to make decisions directly led to confusion and extensive long term industrial action and an unfair pay structure lasting far too long.

The Council is a hot topic for national newspapers and journals and independent writers.

Reading has a problem with the Auditors who have taken issue with how the Committees seem to be scrutinizing themselves. 

 

Not good examples.

 

[Robin-H 11]

13 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

There are only two vaguely similar Councils on the list ie Unitary and Urban.

 

Brighton and Hove Council does not work. The inability to make decisions directly led to confusion and extensive long term industrial action and an unfair pay structure lasting far too long.

The Council is a hot topic for national newspapers and journals and independent writers.

Reading has a problem with the Auditors who have taken issue with how the Committees seem to be scrutinizing themselves. 

 

Not good examples.

 

That list was put together hastily by myself after a very cursory glance on google, and based on a 5 year old document. There could well be other examples now, I doubt it is exhaustive. 

 

Previously, you said they couldn't be used as examples because the cities didn't share the same characteristics as Sheffield. Now you're saying that they can be used as examples of why committee systems are bad... How come your previous argument is no longer relevant?  Either you think they aren't comparable, and therefore it doesn't matter how they work in those places because Sheffield would be entirely different, or they are comparable, which is the opposite of what you were saying before.. 

 

Again, you've not explained why those problems are down to the governance structure. What is it about the system that means those problems would not have happened if those councils worked like Sheffield council? 

[Annie Bynnol 612]

13 hours ago, Robin-H said:

That list was put together hastily by myself after a very cursory glance on google, and based on a 5 year old document. There could well be other examples now, I doubt it is exhaustive. 

 

Previously, you said they couldn't be used as examples because the cities didn't share the same characteristics as Sheffield. Now you're saying that they can be used as examples of why committee systems are bad... How come your previous argument is no longer relevant?  Either you think they aren't comparable, and therefore it doesn't matter how they work in those places because Sheffield would be entirely different, or they are comparable, which is the opposite of what you were saying before.. 

 

Again, you've not explained why those problems are down to the governance structure. What is it about the system that means those problems would not have happened if those councils worked like Sheffield council? 

I am surprised that your evidence for the national popularity of the "...committee system..." is so limited and dated.

The Petition that you read before signing does contain a more uptodate list, although inaccurate, "The town of Fylde in Lancashire..." does not exist.

 

 

The "... 5 year old document..." you used would have contained another Council which you forgot in your haste and "....very cursory glance..."to add to your list.

Why was this Council forgotten about? It was, after all, one of the first. In 2017, the unitary authority of South Gloucestershire returned to the previous  leader/cabinet system.

 

 

My opening line "There are only two vaguely similar Councils on the list..." and "...didn't share the same characteristics as Sheffield" are not incompatible when describing urban areas  in very different geographical , economic and historically different areas. 

"...vaguely similar..." to me would be on the scale of a car and a bicycle. I would not expect a car dealer to use the features of a bicycle to sell me a car.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dave_the_m 61]

Well, Sheffield Electoral Services have now analysed the petition and found 21,815 valid signatures from registered voters, so a referendum will be going ahead no later than May 2020.

[DerbyTup 10]

On 26/08/2018 at 19:20, Bollie said:

As seen on the news tonight, has anyone signed the 'It's Our City' petition?

 

Finally a chance for the people of Sheffield to have more say on how Sheffield Council spends our money and how it is run.

 

What does everyone think about it? I think it's a pretty good idea (can't get a link to work though)

 

What's the general feeling? They need 5% of Sheffield's population to sign. So far they've got 713 out of 20,956 needed so I suppose that speaks for itself

 

Interesting though..

Tell them to take the petition to Bramall Lane on Saturday.  There will be close on 32,000 fans there - the majority of which frequently sing "The City is Ars" - so no doubt they'd all be willing to sign the petition and you'd have your numbers in one fell swoop.