The Consequences of Brexit [part 5] Read 1st post before posting

[apelike 10]

2 hours ago, L00b said:

The problem is in the undeliverable Brexit which the various Leave campaigns missold to the electorate in 2016.

But did they miss-sell it as most just wanted out. As stated many times I do not watch TV or buy newspapers so people in the various leave campaigns did not miss-sell anything to me. That also includes the well known Farage who I can honestly say I have never listened to.. Some people do not listen to all of the mainstream crap especially when it come out of a politicians mouth. Its a bit like being hassled by TV licensing for not having a TV license when I dont watch it.

2 hours ago, L00b said:

People get the governance they deserve.

I agree and that is also one of the reasons many voted leave in protest.

 

[apelike 10]

2 hours ago, Dardandec said:

It absolutely is up to you. You voted for it, you sort it out. It's the remainers who it isn't up too, we have been calling for a referendum on the final deal for ages now but we have to be silenced. Leavers can talk the talk, but they can't walk the walk. Come on leavers you are really looking like proper muppets now. 

I am afraid you dont know what you are talking about as it certainly is not up to me as explained previously, and it is in fact up to the remainers to deal with. My advice.. rally all you remainers and keep calling for another referendum as you will soon see just how much notice will be taken of your battle cries. The government made a promise to the people and so did parliament so lets see if you can change that!

[tinfoilhat 11]

Wait, I voted remain and it's up to remainers to sort out us leaving the EU, despite remainers wanting to stay and we are actually leaving the EU. But it's not down to leavers to sort out? Its leavers who "forced" camerons hand, its leavers who have held key positions in government ie davis, johnson, raab, its leavers like rees mogg who pressured May and forced a no confidence vote and forced her, again, to faff about with the final vote.  And May wants to leave. "Brexit means brexit" she said. She won, just, an election based on her delivetimg brexit - remain supportimg lib dems didnt do well. Leave has all the power but still cant fix it because they cant agree how to leave. Remainrrs have no power in this,  and haven't done since June 2016.

 

Leavers need to own this. It's ALL on them.

 

[apelike 10]

10 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Wait, I voted remain and it's up to remainers to sort out us leaving the EU,

I dont think you read the post properly. I have basically said that if you dont like what is happening and you have so much support then rally round and force parliament to give you another say in another referendum. I've been assured that it is quite easy and the majority support it.

Edited December 29, 2018 by apelike

[apelike 10]

4 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

Leavers need to own this. It's ALL on them.

You must be a bit deluded if you think that after all the hassle and flack the leave voters have got from remainers and the media that they give 2d about what you want!

[tinfoilhat 11]

2 minutes ago, apelike said:

You must be a bit deluded if you think that after all the hassle and flack the leave voters have got from remainers and the media that they give 2d about what you want!

They clearly do. It's always the "remoaners" fault we haven't left, because we "havent got behind it". Which of course is total ********.

[andyofborg 11]

10 hours ago, apelike said:

A referendum that is held is only advisory for parliament and parliament use it as a guide to judge as it cannot be constitutionally binding. It therefor follows that the people make a choice in a referendum but do not decide on the final outcome of that choice or how it is implemented. This referendum asked if people wanted to remain or leave and not if others weren't satisfied to have another referendum or if we should enter a deal. If it was for the people (electorate) to decide then we should just leave without any deals but parliament are now thinking on other lines, so it is parliament that get to decide not us.

 

 

so you would be ok  if parliament changed it's "mind" and decided to either take advantage of the recent ECJ decision and withdraw the Article 50 notification or arrange another advisory referendum with one or more questions/options which sought to identify the opinion of the people

[L00b 441]

6 hours ago, apelike said:

But did they miss-sell it as most just wanted out. As stated many times I do not watch TV or buy newspapers so people in the various leave campaigns did not miss-sell anything to me. That also includes the well known Farage who I can honestly say I have never listened to.. Some people do not listen to all of the mainstream crap especially when it come out of a politicians mouth. Its a bit like being hassled by TV licensing for not having a TV license when I dont watch it.

I agree and that is also one of the reasons many voted leave in protest.

 

You tell me: how representative a sample of the 17.4m Leave-voting corpus are you?

 

Given the voluminous amount of polls and their historical trends over the past 2 years, all of them uniformly painting the same picture of a population unsure and split about what outcome it wants from 'Brexit', consistently ranging from 'in the EU in all but name' to 'full crash out', I daresay "hardly".

 

As I said: that is the core problem. It was seeded by the Leave campaign promises of cakeism. And it is unsolvable by the political class and system, because there is no cake and so they can't please a large enough portion of Leave voters with any one Brexiting outcome, in the face of the 48% across the ideological road.

 

Whence we are where we are. 82 days to go. Tic-toc-tic-toc...

 

Accessorily, casting back to one of your posts yesterday, my awareness of that political deadlock in the UK, compounded as it was by Labour's complicity and became still more after the GE2017 and May's unholy alliance with the DUP (in the face of the NI border problem), and my belief in its eventual consequences (accidental crash-out), amount to one of the 4 core reasons why we left the UK early.

Edited December 29, 2018 by L00b

[andyofborg 11]

7 hours ago, apelike said:

No I am suggesting that there was no plan at all by those in power to believe that a leave vote was possible hence the mess, yes the mess.

the leave campaign presented a number of "plans" based on unicorns and cakism, all of which have evaporated in the cold light of reality. the leavers within parliament now have a number of more realistic plans. the mess has been caused 100% by the leave side not having a single plan which people could coalesce around. 

 

7 hours ago, apelike said:

 I and many many other leave voters thought it would actually mean cutting complete ties legally withe the EU and the time allotted would be about doing just that.

really? why on earth would you think that?

 

presumably, you would like us to honour committments freely made in the past?

 

and also that you would like some sort of relationship with the EU and it's Member States?

[melthebell 863]

Lol, you couldn't make it up

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46704522

 

The UK spends 108m on no deal ferries in the event of a no deal. Most of the money go to French and Danish firms.

 

Couldn't that money have been spent on the nhs? Lol

[I1L2T3 10]

9 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

Wait, I voted remain and it's up to remainers to sort out us leaving the EU, despite remainers wanting to stay and we are actually leaving the EU. But it's not down to leavers to sort out? Its leavers who "forced" camerons hand, its leavers who have held key positions in government ie davis, johnson, raab, its leavers like rees mogg who pressured May and forced a no confidence vote and forced her, again, to faff about with the final vote.  And May wants to leave. "Brexit means brexit" she said. She won, just, an election based on her delivetimg brexit - remain supportimg lib dems didnt do well. Leave has all the power but still cant fix it because they cant agree how to leave. Remainrrs have no power in this,  and haven't done since June 2016.

 

Leavers need to own this. It's ALL on them.

 

Exactly. For most remainers being told that WE have to sort out Brexit is like telling a condemned man to dig his own grave before he’s kicked into it then shot in the face.

 

Dont leavers get it? We don’t want to leave, and in terms of reasons why, all logic, fact and practicality supports us and not you.

[retep 68]

10 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

Exactly. For most remainers being told that WE have to sort out Brexit is like telling a condemned man to dig his own grave before he’s kicked into it then shot in the face.

 

Dont leavers get it? We don’t want to leave, and in terms of reasons why, all logic, fact and practicality supports us and not you.

Quite obviously not enough supported remain, that's why you're on the losing side no matter how much you whimper.