The Consequences of Brexit [part 5] Read 1st post before posting

[I1L2T3 10]

15 minutes ago, *_ash_* said:

You are one of the people calling brexiteers 'idiots group brigade' too I1L2,

 

 

my I remind you of this post, and exchange we had pre-vote.

 

You said you were 50/50 and here write that you based your vote on a post you didn't like... 

 

Why didn't you tell me why it wouldn't self-destruct at the time? You just asked me for evidence that it WOULD collapse, which I obviously couldn't/can't.

 

You also say in later posts to me in the same couple of pages, that you are highly 'euro-sceptic', but it seems not now? - 'Not a chance' seems pretty confident.

 

I'm not isolating you here btw, I don't use the others' nonsense posts and attribute you in this too, but it just seems a little bit of a change of thought.

 

 

 

 

 

Because I don’t like something it doesn’t automatically mean it will collapse.

 

I do not like the Tory party, but it’s unlikely to collapse as much as I want it to.

 

I don’t like the EU particularly either. I’m comfortable with it being there. I like the trade advantages we get. I like many elements of collaboration.

 

I don’t like the turn the EU has taken away from trade and collaboration being the focus. I don’t like the way it has to resort to technocratic solutions when in serious crisis (Greece, Italy for example). There are many thing I don’t like.

 

We can’t changr any of that from outside the bloc. While we’re in it we can.

 

But there’s one thing that overrides everything: the economy and with it the sense of economic well-being. I’ve said it for years. It’s just practical reality that the EU is where we function best. 

 

Nobody really voted to make themselves significantly poorer. Certainly not the people who voted for change. 

[*_ash_* 88]

1 hour ago, AntiBrexit said:

When Cameron decided to do an referendum on the UK's EU membership he really thought he could take on UKIP and Tory hard right take the bull by the horns. The one factor he failed to understand was how angry people were with his policies notable on Welfare which has hit people hard I think some people voted leave has a protest vote he wanted to stay in the EU so some voted for Brexit to hit back. Others voted for various anti EU reasons. 

 

N

Sorry to go back to my earlier point, but as I said earlier Blair's government caused this with their incompetence.

 

If everyone wasn't sucking Blair's banana at the time, and the anti-EU had any stance in those pre-social media days, I think the choice of whether to allow lots more countries to have free access to the UK employment market and benefits market (though this was altered later), and was put to a referendum, how do you think that vote would have gone?

Crikey, even the Guardian were criticising these decisions, and still people weren't listening. Lucas-land ideologies.

 

Absolutely guaranteed to be voted down. It was just too big a decision, and yet now people complain that referenda are too big decision for people to make. You couldn't write history novels so well.

 

The Torys are no better, they made a simple decision simplify a problem (i.e. cross border taxi hiring) and made a complete hash of it.

 

His gambling change too, I wrote heavily about, as was another hugely bad decision (but no one argues, as both are good for economy)

 

 

11 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Whoa!

 

That is some serious stalking! 😳

Don't try and paint me as a villain Tops. I'm not, I won't be embarrassed, and you won't win that one. I discuss things and always have done, in a respectable manner.

 

I have several links saved because people tell me on other sites, that I was influenced by buses, etc, and that I'm racist etc. blah blah, and it just happened that I saw an I1 post, and remembered a link to the days before the vote. I couldn't have 'stalked' or searched that on the new software as still working it out.

 

Nice try.

 

 

 

 

 

[*_ash_* 88]

1 hour ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Whoa!

 

That is some serious stalking! 😳

Also, nice way of avoiding all the points I made... I see this a lot on social media, and here lately. You hope that they just go away.

 

The response below is much better dialogue.

 

Are you young btw? I know you don't have to answer, but I get a better feel of a convo. (shouldn't matter, ageist ash scandal!!) - but still.

 

I'm 44 btw.

 

-

 

 

44 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

Because I don’t like something it doesn’t automatically mean it will collapse.

 

I do not like the Tory party, but it’s unlikely to collapse as much as I want it to.

But you recognise that I think it will collapse, even though I can't prove it will, no more than I could prove that the housing market was due to collapse, but it did.

 

I think the Tory party will collapse, so this prediction I agree with!!

 

I wonder how though, because I think Labour could too. Could be a good thing though tbh. I think the current voting choice is dreadful. It's outdated too, and needs some fresh parties.

 

 

Quote

 

I don’t like the EU particularly either. I’m comfortable with it being there. I like the trade advantages we get. I like many elements of collaboration.

Yes, trade, I ok with. Hence I would have voted for EEC. Laws, taxes, wages, employment rules, all no for me. Especially employment rules, as many EU countries are incredibly poor, and can win any large big company contracts. (same if we out of course I know, but I prefer to tender contracts)

 

Quote

 

I don’t like the turn the EU has taken away from trade and collaboration being the focus. I don’t like the way it has to resort to technocratic solutions when in serious crisis (Greece, Italy for example). There are many thing I don’t like.

Yes agreed to all. I would add in there, the lack of help to to eastern countries during the Syria crisis (and continued now).

 

I felt they were left out to dry, and treated dreadfully and not helped. This EU is promoting, IMO, a community. Where were they when eastern european countries were forced themselves to put wire borders up? ****ing disgrace imo.  It showed them to what I considered beforehand, so should I be told off for voting against them?

 

To quote Tops cats, that I WAS stalking you, he/she should notice that this looks like you stalking me!! as Greece and Italy are generally my prime examples!

 

I would also include Spain and Portugal as others in the western side.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

We can’t changr any of that from outside the bloc. While we’re in it we can.

I think this is where we differ. I don't think we can if in. I think we just are collaborating if in, and the whole thing about equality is just sending us all poorer to balance the poorer countries. It just smells of communism to me, and whether I am right or wrong, that's how I feel. And for once I had a vote that wasn't a complete waste of time, like general elections.

 

In fact Tops if you saw the stalking posts, you'll see that I was so disgusted with the whole thing, I was 20 mins off not voting at all > then Tony Blair came on TV asking people to go out and vote for a better future, vote in, so I went out and walked to the centre (still insistent on spoiling vote, but was 4 women in small room, and thought they would hear me scribbling my protest! lol - so ticked out thinking no way it would win)

 

 

Quote

 

But there’s one thing that overrides everything: the economy and with it the sense of economic well-being. I’ve said it for years. It’s just practical reality that the EU is where we function best. 

 

Nobody really voted to make themselves significantly poorer. Certainly not the people who voted for change. 

If it's practical to trade with EU, why not whole world? Where does it end? EU, add one more, add one more, add one more...

 

It's just like capitalism... everything ends up a one huge conglomerate.

Edited December 16, 2018 by *_ash_*
clarity

[Cyclone 10]

Re:Tory collapse, the Labour party split historically and the Lib Dems formed.  The Tory party could split in a similar way with a new eurosceptic party forming (presumably that tried to be less obviously racist than UKIP).

7 hours ago, *_ash_* said:

If it's practical to trade with EU, why not whole world? Where does it end? EU, add one more, add one more, add one more...

 

It's just like capitalism... everything ends up a one huge conglomerate.

Is there any reason you wouldn't want that?

If we could guarantee that EU standards were being applied, no child labour, safety standards (in how AND what is produced), levelling of tariffs, reduction of red tape.  What's not to like about frictionless trade?  So long as we don't have to accept chlorinated chicken from the US or chemicals laced products from China.  (Which incidentally looks more likely for us outside the EU).

[andyofborg 11]

9 hours ago, *_ash_* said:

Yes agreed to all. I would add in there, the lack of help to to eastern countries during the Syria crisis (and continued now).

 

I felt they were left out to dry, and treated dreadfully and not helped. This EU is promoting, IMO, a community. Where were they when eastern european countries were forced themselves to put wire borders up? ****ing disgrace imo.  It showed them to what I considered beforehand, so should I be told off for voting against them?

there was undoubtably a massive political failure in dealing with this crisis. which at its roots represents a failure of western foreign policy. 

 

the problem is that most of these refugees could be tagged with the label islam and the shouty types made it all but impossible to form a sensible response to the crisis. 

 

9 hours ago, *_ash_* said:

To quote Tops cats, that I WAS stalking you, he/she should notice that this looks like you stalking me!! as Greece and Italy are generally my prime examples!

 

I would also include Spain and Portugal as others in the western side.

 

are greece, italy, spain and portugal stalking you too?

 

on the wider issue of these countries, then they signed up to the euro but didn't seem to want to accept that it also brought some responsibilities.  more cakism and unicorns.

 

9 hours ago, *_ash_* said:

 thing about equality is just sending us all poorer to balance the poorer countries. It just smells of communism to me,

but are you happy that people are struggling to exist on less than a dollar a day or drinking dirty water or suffering from conditions that could easily be cured?

 

aid might make you feel all warm and fluffy inside, but to really address this issue you essentially need to redistribute wealth downwards, rather than upwards. 

 

9 hours ago, *_ash_* said:

 

It's just like capitalism... everything ends up a one huge conglomerate.

perhaps with the way we seem to be implementing capitalism, but there are more socially aware forms which would be far more helpful to everyone.

[AntiBrexit 0]

The government is now not functioning because of the deadlocked Brexit loads of important issues need addressing this alone shows how damaging this enterprise is. 

 

May needs stop messing about and start listening to MP's concrens this train wreck has gone on far too long now. I'm expecting to hear about how the NHS is in more crisis this winter because the government is too focused on Brexit. We have an  choric homeless crisis that's crying out for government help no doubt we will be reading about how Police are finding dead homeless people around the country has this winter takes hold. Plus the mother of all  problems - Universal Credit mess when will they get into their heads it's doesn't work hence the rise in homeless population don't they get it yet doesn't it seem strange that UC is rolled out and homelessness increasing at the same time? Come on May tell the people the turth Brexit will not work Farage and Johnson are peddling fantasy dream of ye old Britannia not cold reality. Johnson is an politican of the moment anything to advance his career has no sane person should be believe his ideas then we have Farage the loundmouth loves stirring it up but really got nothing worth while listening too. 

 

 

[tinfoilhat 11]

57 minutes ago, AntiBrexit said:

The government is now not functioning because of the deadlocked Brexit loads of important issues need addressing this alone shows how damaging this enterprise is. 

 

May needs stop messing about and start listening to MP's concrens this train wreck has gone on far too long now. I'm expecting to hear about how the NHS is in more crisis this winter because the government is too focused on Brexit. We have an  choric homeless crisis that's crying out for government help no doubt we will be reading about how Police are finding dead homeless people around the country has this winter takes hold. Plus the mother of all  problems - Universal Credit mess when will they get into their heads it's doesn't work hence the rise in homeless population don't they get it yet doesn't it seem strange that UC is rolled out and homelessness increasing at the same time? Come on May tell the people the turth Brexit will not work Farage and Johnson are peddling fantasy dream of ye old Britannia not cold reality. Johnson is an politican of the moment anything to advance his career has no sane person should be believe his ideas then we have Farage the loundmouth loves stirring it up but really got nothing worth while listening too. 

 

 

Your top paragraph is spot on. 

 

But which Mps does she listen to? There's no consensus at all, so really if we want to move forward we should just make our MP vote for her deal. 

[ANGELFIRE1 10]

On 12/14/2018 at 8:49 PM, truman said:

Do you have a link to them?

Google is your friend.  

Detecting fraud

If the auditors do suspect corruption, they pass the cases to OLAF, the EU's anti-fraud office. According to the latest figures provided by the Commission, fraud affects 0.2% of the EU's annual spending. The estimated cost of fraudulent irregularities was €248m in 2013.

 

Angel1.

Edited December 16, 2018 by ANGELFIRE1

[tinfoilhat 11]

3 minutes ago, ANGELFIRE1 said:

Google is your friend.

 

Angel1.

Well I've shown you a BBC link showing that the EU has audited accounts every year from 2007. 

 

Stop digging.

[andyofborg 11]

20 minutes ago, ANGELFIRE1 said:

Google is your friend.  

Detecting fraud

If the auditors do suspect corruption, they pass the cases to OLAF, the EU's anti-fraud office. According to the latest figures provided by the Commission, fraud affects 0.2% of the EU's annual spending. The estimated cost of fraudulent irregularities was €248m in 2013.

 

Angel1.

how does this compare with national government losses thorough fraud?

[Top Cats Hat 10]

1 hour ago, ANGELFIRE1 said:

According to the latest figures provided by the Commission, fraud affects 0.2% of the EU's annual spending.

Wow that's pretty good.

 

Unfortunately there are opportunities for fraud in all large organisations. 0.2% in an organisation as big as the EU is pretty impressive.

 

I had no idea that it was so low. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

[lottiecass 17]

18 hours ago, Top Cats Hat said:

You refer to that as though it is a bad thing???? 

You must live in a different world, what reason would you give for the swing to the right?