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The Consequences of Brexit [part 5] Read 1st post before posting

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If we're going back far enough in hindsight, Cameron should have left out the referendum from the manifesto. We would be blissfully unaware and not in the mess we're in today.

 

It was only included in the manifesto to buy off Tory voters who were threatening to vote UKIP.

 

Can anyone remind me how many Tory seats UKIP won in 2015?

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The point is rhetoric changes. It's a moot point anyway.

 

If we're going back far enough in hindsight, Cameron should have left out the referendum from the manifesto. We would be blissfully unaware and not in the mess we're in today.

You're not making any sense. The BREXIT negotiations have not be completed and it is very premature to say the UK is in a mess. It would be more accurate to say the EU is in a mess.

 

---------- Post added 28-06-2018 at 15:48 ----------

 

Cameron is gone, as are the value of any promises he made.

The referendum result should be respected regardless of who is Prime Minister.

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The point is rhetoric changes. It's a moot point anyway.

 

If we're going back far enough in hindsight, Cameron should have left out the referendum from the manifesto. We would be blissfully unaware and not in the mess we're in today.

 

You're not making any sense. The BREXIT negotiations have not be completed and it is very premature to say the UK is in a mess. It would be more accurate to say the EU is in a mess.

 

The mess we're in today, the cliff is rapidly approaching and the unicorn isn't going to save us.

 

I bet pounds to euros that the other EU member states will be clinging onto their membership for dear life.

 

We're a cautionary tale.

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I disagree.

 

This Government has two competing plans for Brexit. That's the real problem.

 

That and the weakness of the Government have led to May's reluctance to face down the lunatic right wing of her "party".

 

It is all going to end in tears.

 

Cabinet of chaos

 

Strong and stable

 

Jesus wept

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I bet pounds to euros that the other EU member states will be clinging onto their membership for dear life.

 

We're a cautionary tale.

 

It's in their best interests that we fail, yet people act like 27 other nations are going to pander to our every demand???

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The BREXIT negotiations have not be completed and it is very premature to say the UK is in a mess.
The BREXIT negotiations have indeed barely begun. 15 months after they should have, and 4 months before they should be finished.

 

The U.K. is in a mess now (investment-starved, haemorrhaging its financial services tax base, international goodwill spent) because of that.

It would be more accurate to say the EU is in a mess.
Would it? Tell me more.

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It's in their best interests that we fail, yet people act like 27 other nations are going to pander to our every demand???

 

How does it go again 'They need us more than we need them'?

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The BREXIT negotiations have indeed barely begun. 15 months after they should have, and 4 months before they should be finished.

 

The U.K. is in a mess now (investment-starved, haemorrhaging its financial services tax base, international goodwill spent) because of that.

Would it? Tell me more.

"The fragility of the EU is increasing," warns EU Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker. "The cracks are growing in size."

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-44632471

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The referendum result should be respected regardless of who is Prime Minister.

 

I agree with you there but suspect that we may differ on what is meant by 'respect'.

 

The referendum was only advisory and what it showed was that around 36% of the electorate were in favour of leaving the EU and 34% were in favour of remaining. It also showed that three out of five constituant parts of the U.K. (Gibraltar, N Ireland and Scotland) showed no desire to leave with only England and Wales showing a narrow desire to leave.

 

So as a purely advisory referendum, what can be deduced?

 

1. There is no overwhelming desire to leave the EU.

 

2. Most of the countries of the U.K. wish to remain.

 

3. Even in those countries that expressed a desire to leave it was by a very narrow margin.

 

4. Less than 30% of the total adult population expressed a desire to leave strong enough to vote for it.

 

So to respect the result you would conclude that there is some support but not significant enough to leave the EU but significant enough to look at some of the concerns of Leave voters.

 

Regardless of what we are told, this was not an election and Leave didn't win.

 

Compare 2016 with 1974

 

1974 Pro EU 64% Anti EU 20%

 

2016 Pro EU 34% Anti EU 36%

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Cameron never in his wildest dreams expected the result that his election winning referendum promise brought forth, thus he never needed a plan for either scenario. The Tories then vote in another remainer as his successor, obviously devoid of any assemblance of a plan, this is just about as stupid as another pacifist succeeding Neville Chamberlain.

What was 'stupid' was allowing a Referendum in the first instance.

HM Government is tasked with, er, governing. Why does it want to farm-out hard decisions to the electorate?

BUT having done so, HMG cannot now resile from the Referendum decision. Dissenting politicians should stop trying to compel a re-run!

 

---------- Post added 28-06-2018 at 17:37 ----------

 

So as a purely advisory referendum, what can be deduced?

 

1. There is no overwhelming desire to leave the EU.

 

2. Most of the countries of the U.K. wish to remain.

 

3. Even in those countries that expressed a desire to leave it was by a very narrow margin.

 

4. Less than 30% of the total adult population expressed a desire to leave strong enough to vote for it.

Alternatively:

1. More voters voted to leave than to remain.

2/3. That means the majority of voters voting in the UK, no matter how they're subdivided.

4. More than two-thirds of eligible voters did not vote to remain. Non-voters have no say in the issue. They had a chance but did not vote.

Edited by Jeffrey Shaw

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I agree with you there but suspect that we may differ on what is meant by 'respect'.

 

The referendum was only advisory and what it showed was that around 36% of the electorate were in favour of leaving the EU and 34% were in favour of remaining. It also showed that three out of five constituant parts of the U.K. (Gibraltar, N Ireland and Scotland) showed no desire to leave with only England and Wales showing a narrow desire to leave.

 

So as a purely advisory referendum, what can be deduced?

 

1. There is no overwhelming desire to leave the EU.

 

2. Most of the countries of the U.K. wish to remain.

 

3. Even in those countries that expressed a desire to leave it was by a very narrow margin.

 

4. Less than 30% of the total adult population expressed a desire to leave strong enough to vote for it.

 

So to respect the result you would conclude that there is some support but not significant enough to leave the EU but significant enough to look at some of the concerns of Leave voters.

 

Regardless of what we are told, this was not an election and Leave didn't win.

 

Compare 2016 with 1974

 

1974 Pro EU 64% Anti EU 20%

 

2016 Pro EU 34% Anti EU 36%

 

You have clearly shown you have no respect for the referendum result or any respect for the wishes of the people who voted to leave the EU. The fact is 52% voted to leave and 48% voted to remain, which makes leave the winners in a democratic vote. The winner in any referendum is the option which receives over 50% of all votes counted. A referendum is the fairest way to decide which of two options for a democratic society to follow regarding a single issue. In a General Election in the UK, no ruling party has received over 50% of the vote since before the Second World War. For you to recycle the old chestnut that the referendum result was only advisory, shows your utter contempt for the democratic process. The fact is the UK Prime Minister has accepted the advice of the democratic UK people and the UK are leaving the EU. Imagine the outcry, if Remain had won the EU referendum and the UK Government did not to accept the advice of the democratic people and decided to exit the UK from the EU.

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