The Consequences of Brexit [part 5] Read 1st post before posting

[I1L2T3 10]

1 hour ago, woodview said:

That was nice of them. We implement laws passed by them. That is governance.

The European Council proposes legislation and the EU parliament agree it or not. Can you explain to me how I get my MEP to propose legislation in the EU Parliament, that we as his electorate would like to see?

Could you explain to a dim leaver such as myself, what happens to legislation passed by the European Parliament. Does it not apply to the UK? Thanks.

You don’t seem to understand the EU. As an EU member we make those rules, and as one of the biggest members we have a massively disproportionate say in the formation of those rules, historically fully accepting 90%+ of what is proposed.

 

Once again you are just putting lies, myths and misunderstandings forward in a way that is superficially reasonable, but the core of your arguments are exactly what the most loony Brexiters come out with. You just do it more nicely.

[nickycheese 10]

7 minutes ago, woodview said:

No, I commented in another post regarding employment rights, that we have had to implement some laws that I personally feel are worthwhile.

You are missing the point, either deilberately or not. Your own post here, states we have had that particular law forced onto us. If you want that law, vote for a British political party that has it in their manifesto. If a majority of the UK electorate want it, it will be enacted.

All I want is the British electorate and the parties that are supposed to represent us, to get up off their backsides and do it. Don't leave it to someone else who may bring in some laws we like and others we don't. We have a democracy in this country, the longest standing of any of our neighbours. It should be used.

The EU generally doesn't just 'impose' things on the UK - they are EU wide rules. This is because some things (like employment rights) need to be decided at that level to ensure things work and are fair on an EU level.

We make political decisions at different levels dependent on what level is sensible.

• Local issues may be decided by area panels , parish councils, etc.
• Less local issues are decided by city or county councils
• Scottish/Welsh/Sheffield region issues are (or will be) decided by thier governing bodies
• National issues are decided by the UK parliament
• EU issues are decided by the EU Commission / Parliament
• Global issues may be decided by global bodies - UN, WTO, etc.

The EU is just one level in the way things are decided. You may think they decide things at the wrong level, but that's a thing for our government and MEPs to influence.

The EU requiring the UK to follow EU rules is no different from the UK Government requiring Sheffield to follow UK rules.

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by nickycheese

[woodview 10]

29 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

Them?

 

You do know that we are part of that democratic process? 

Yes, we are 9% of that democratic process. The MEPs get the chance to vote on legislation propsed by the European Commision. The UK representative on that is Julian King, appointed by David Cameron in 2016.

Cool.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

1 minute ago, I1L2T3 said:

You don’t seem to understand the EU. As an EU member we make those rules, and as one of the biggest members we have a massively disproportionate say in the formation of those rules, 

That's why so many people in Europe think that we are completely bonkers!

 

We have the best deal, a disproportionate amount of influence, exemption from joining the €uro zone, exemption from Schengen and to top it all off we get a healthy rebate every year.

[woodview 10]

5 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

You don’t seem to understand the EU. As an EU member we make those rules, and as one of the biggest members we have a massively disproportionate say in the formation of those rules, historically fully accepting 90%+ of what is proposed.

 

Once again you are just putting lies, myths and misunderstandings forward in a way that is superficially reasonable, but the core of your arguments are exactly what the most loony Brexiters come out with. You just do it more nicely.

I do understand, thanks. We have 9% of the MEPs , that is our proportionate say on things. Those things are propsed to them by the European Commision. If you think that is OK, then your are entitled to that opinion.

I don't think it is OK, and consequently want out of that organisation.

1 minute ago, Top Cats Hat said:

That's why so many people in Europe think that we are completely bonkers!

 

We have the best deal, a disproportionate amount of influence, exemption from joining the €uro zone, exemption from Schengen and to top it all off we get a healthy rebate every year.

Cooooooool. We get 9% of parliament. We pay loads in but we get some back. And we get to keep our own currency so we can set our own interest rates. I didn't realise it was that good. I'm writing to TM now to get my vote scrubbed off the count. 😂😂😂

7 minutes ago, nickycheese said:

The EU generally doesn't just 'impose' things on the UK - they are EU wide rules. This is because some things (like employment rights) need to be decided at that level to ensure things work and are fair on an EU level.

We make political decisions at different levels dependent on what level is sensible.

• Local issues may be decided by area panels , parish councils, etc.
• Less local issues are decided by city or county councils
• Scottish/Welsh/Sheffield region issues are (or will be) decided by thier governing bodies
• National issues are decided by the UK parliament
• EU issues are decided by the EU Commission / Parliament
• Global issues may be decided by global bodies - UN, WTO, etc.

The EU is just one level in the way things are decided. You may think they decide things at the wrong level, but that's a thing for our government and MEPs to influence.

The EU requiring the UK to follow EU rules is no different from the UK Government requiring Sheffield to follow UK rules.

 

I'd disagree with some of the detail, but agree with you overall. I just prefer decison making to be regionalised as is 'practically' and sensibly possible. The further away and more centralised it becomes, the worse it becomes IMO. In your example the decison making could drift further and further up that tree, to the point where the EU also becomes more and more redundant, accepting more decisions made by a worldwide UN type body.

It isn't for me.

[helloitsonly 10]

well all this Brexit fuss doesn't seem to be affecting my  shares screen today its almost all blue today😎 so much for the disaster

[nickycheese 10]

37 minutes ago, woodview said:

I just prefer decison making to be regionalised as is 'practically' and sensibly possible. The further away and more centralised it becomes, the worse it becomes IMO. In your example the decison making could drift further and further up that tree, to the point where the EU also becomes more and more redundant, accepting more decisions made by a worldwide UN type body.

It isn't for me.

I think most people agree, and I think, generally, that is what happens. What laws have the EU introduced that would have been better dealt with at UK level?

[Top Cats Hat 10]

11 minutes ago, nickycheese said:

What laws have the EU introduced that would have been better dealt with at UK level?

If this is such a burning issue with UK citizens, how come not one leave supporter I spoke to during the referendum campaign could name a single law 'imposed' on us by the EU apart from 'bendy bananas' (which was fake news based on an EU guidance document outlining the physical standards for different classes of fruit.)

[L00b 441]

19 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

If this is such a burning issue with UK citizens, how come not one leave supporter I spoke to during the referendum campaign could name a single law 'imposed' on us by the EU apart from 'bendy bananas' (which was fake news based on an EU guidance document outlining the physical standards for different classes of fruit.)

The burning issue of some, maybe many, Brexiteers, is not that the EU ‘imposes’ collectively-beneficial and market competition-levelling  laws to the Member States, but that the U.K. does not impose its political will upon the EU enough, to their taste.

 

As demonstrated by e.g. woodview’s recent posts with the 9% comment/stat (many more to be seen, from other posters).

 

The perennial problem is, they can’t seem to differentiate between national self-interest and European common interest, nor to understand that these two notions always co-existed, long before the EEC, never mind the EU, were things.

 

The isolationist aspect of Brexit, given the current bloc-growing geopolitical context, is as clear a symptom of those failures, as you could find.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2018 by L00b

[altus 537]

1 hour ago, helloitsonly said:

well all this Brexit fuss doesn't seem to be affecting my  shares screen today its almost all blue today😎 so much for the disaster

That just demonstrates you don't realise what has happened.

 

Falling confidence in UK economy -> fall in the pound against US dollar (which happened yesterday) -> companies who get most of their revenue in dollars (75% of FTSE100) shares go up.

 

It might be good for people with shares in the short term but doesn't indicate the country is doing well overall.

[I1L2T3 10]

58 minutes ago, Top Cats Hat said:

If this is such a burning issue with UK citizens, how come not one leave supporter I spoke to during the referendum campaign could name a single law 'imposed' on us by the EU apart from 'bendy bananas' (which was fake news based on an EU guidance document outlining the physical standards for different classes of fruit.)

Exactly. Nothing is imposed. We have a say in every aspect of it.

 

As I mentioned earlier, a massively disproportionate say.

 

Its not a surprise that countries like Germany, France and the UK have done well out of the EU. 

 

A slightly uncomfortable truth for some remainers I guess, but the answer is not to throw ourselves under the bus to level ourselves down

Edited December 11, 2018 by I1L2T3

[helloitsonly 10]

9 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

Exactly. Nothing is imposed. We have a say in every aspect of it.

 

As I mentioned earlier, a massively disproportionate say.

 

Its not a surprise that countries like Germany, France and the UK have done well out of the EU. 

 

A slightly uncomfortable truth for some remainers I guess, but the answer is not to throw ourselves under the bus to level ourselves down

not true, many many things are governed by the euro law making, emissions,mot testing, CE marking of clothing, pretty much anything that comes into the EU, differing standards of things like paint, you name it and there is an EU commission on it adding and over egging the rules with belts braces and parachutes. all imposed by the  un-elected.