The Consequences of Brexit [part 5] Read 1st post before posting

[stifflersmom 11]

50 minutes ago, L00b said:

They are. Leavers generally are not.

The negotiation with the UK is finished. This is a new negotiation. With Spain. And only because the UK tried playing silly bugger in the WA at the 11th hour.

 

And before you should come all surprised or sanctimonious, I told you tens of times before: there were always 28 parties to the withdrawal agreement negotiation, not just 2. It's just that 27 of them were represented by a common agent. But that doesn't mean they were going to forget or shelve their individual self-interests.

Indeed. The self interest will come in the future trade negotiations when each member state has the power of veto. Yet leavers still claim that member states have no control and power is held by unelected buereacrats in Brussels. 

[woodview 10]

1 hour ago, L00b said:

They are. Leavers generally are not.

The negotiation with the UK is finished. This is a new negotiation. With Spain. And only because the UK tried playing silly bugger in the WA at the 11th hour.

 

And before you should come all surprised or sanctimonious, I told you tens of times before: there were always 28 parties to the withdrawal agreement negotiation, not just 2. It's just that 27 of them were represented by a common agent. But that doesn't mean they were going to forget or shelve their individual self-interests.

The negotiation either was finished or it wasn't. Spain wanting changes re Gibralter is as direct as Ireland and the NI border. Point is, it wasn't finished, and won't be finished until everyone has signed it off. I think we'll find it isn't even finished then either, because, if it doesn't go through Parliament, there will be a big decision to be made by all involved. My opinion that the least painful to all involved will be to tweak it sufficiently to get it through. That will mean updating the section that has the potential to hold us in the CU indefinitely.

29 minutes ago, stifflersmom said:

Indeed. The self interest will come in the future trade negotiations when each member state has the power of veto. Yet leavers still claim that member states have no control and power is held by unelected buereacrats in Brussels. 

Because the future deal is veto possible. Lots of other things are only QMV. The deal itself is by majority only. It's just that the commision has taken the decison that they'd prefer it to be unanimous.

[Longcol 604]

You couldn't make this up if you tried (vol 94)

 

"Theresa May's Brexit deal is 'worse' than staying in EU, Dominic Raab says"

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-theresa-may-dominic-raab-staying-eu-today-show-bbc-radio-4-interview-a8648101.html

 

In what mad imagination can you expect a better deal when leaving the EU than staying in it? And this guy was our Brexit secretary. No wonder half of Europe thinks we've gone stark staring bonkers.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2018 by Longcol

[woodview 10]

1 minute ago, Longcol said:

You couldn't make this up if you tried (vol 94)

 

"Theresa May's Brexit deal is 'worse' than staying in EU, Dominic Raab says"

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-theresa-may-dominic-raab-staying-eu-today-show-bbc-radio-4-interview-a8648101.html

 

In what mad imagination can you expect a better deal for leaving the EU than staying in it? And this guy was our Brexit secretary. No wonder half of Europe thinks we've gone stark staring bonkers.

 

 

 

 

 

He's trying to say it's got all the bad bits, but none of the potential good bits, I think.

I don't know where he was when all this was being discussed though..........

[truman 10]

1 minute ago, woodview said:

He's trying to say it's got all the bad bits, but none of the potential good bits, I think.

I don't know where he was when all this was being discussed though..........

Why would he think we'd be able to keep the good bits? It's like ending membership of a gym and still be expecting to use the pool..

[Lockdoctor 10]

50 minutes ago, Longcol said:

You couldn't make this up if you tried (vol 94)

 

"Theresa May's Brexit deal is 'worse' than staying in EU, Dominic Raab says"

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-theresa-may-dominic-raab-staying-eu-today-show-bbc-radio-4-interview-a8648101.html

 

In what mad imagination can you expect a better deal when leaving the EU than staying in it? And this guy was our Brexit secretary. No wonder half of Europe thinks we've gone stark staring bonkers.

 

 

 

 

 

Of course Mrs May's Brexit deal is worse than staying in the EU because an EU member can decide their own future and trigger Article 50 and leave the Custom Union while the UK will never  be allowed to leave the Customs Union unless they are given permission by the EU to do so.  Our Brexit Secretaries  have never had  any final say in negotiations because it has always been Mrs May leading Brexit negotiations.

[woodview 10]

1 hour ago, truman said:

Why would he think we'd be able to keep the good bits? It's like ending membership of a gym and still be expecting to use the pool..

Because you can trade freely with other countries without all the other stuff. i.e Canada and Japan have done so.

Also remeber they are getting to use our pool too.

 

[truman 10]

3 minutes ago, woodview said:

Because you can trade freely with other countries without all the other stuff. i.e Canada and Japan have done so.

Also remeber they are getting to use our pool too.

 

So what good bits of the EU do Canada and Japan get,...don't you think we've gained anything from being members?

[woodview 10]

Just now, truman said:

So what good bits of the EU do Canada and Japan get,...don't you think we've gained anything from being members?

Yes we have, it's a good trading area. That's what Canada and Japan have gained, and we've gained similar access to their markets. That's all good stuff, without the need for a central parliamnet and all the other guff and a humongous membership bill.

It's just a big political project. Free trade fine, simplified work visa sytem fine, close co-operation fine.  A central government, an army, president Juncker who none of us voted for, no thanks, not for me anyway.

[stifflersmom 11]

13 minutes ago, woodview said:

Because you can trade freely with other countries without all the other stuff. i.e Canada and Japan have done so.

Also remeber they are getting to use our pool too.

 

To continue the analogy...a gym is much more than a pool. Canada and Japan may have access to free trade with Europe, but there are also benefits they don't enjoy which we currently do,  like shared resource on security, intelligence, communications networks, scientific funding, grants for development projects etc etc etc. 

Edited November 23, 2018 by stifflersmom

[woodview 10]

5 minutes ago, stifflersmom said:

To continue the analogy...a gym is much more than a pool. Canada and Japan may have access to free trade with Europe, but there are also benefits like shared resource on security, intelligence, communications networks, scientific funding, grants for development projects etc etc etc. 

That's right. In my second post I support close co-operatin in lots of areas, but again, we don't need a central government and £xxx million per week to enable it. For example we share intelligence and security data with the usa for our joint benefit, but we don't get wrapped up in the their legislation process.

PS I was a bit sad the anolgy got dropped part way through. Can security be the doorman, intelligence be the physio and communications be the cafe? 😉

Edited November 23, 2018 by woodview

[steve68 66]

On 22 November 2018 at 5:33 PM, Lockdoctor said:

Of course I am not joking. Since the referendum vote I haven't become poorer. I have more money in the bank and my share portfolio has increased in value. I am not worried about my fortunes reversing anytime soon. 

Mark Carney becomes British citizen, I guess he's not too worried either.

 

https://www.hamhigh.co.uk/news/politics/camden-mayor-jenny-headlam-wells-confirms-bank-chief-as-brit-1-5792615

Edited November 23, 2018 by steve68