The Consequences of Brexit [part 5] Read 1st post before posting

[Top Cats Hat 10]

I think Gove has made a smart move.

 

Like BoJo, he is more concerned with self advancement than principle. He went off the radar for most of yesterday and I guess he was assessing the lie of the land.

 

The turning point was when Rees-Smug announced that he was going to get the 48 letters sent to trigger a vote of no confidence. An hour later May came back fighting, her esteem seemed to go up among MPs and whispers started that the crank wing of the party was struggling to get the 48 letters needed.

 

I suspect that although a Brexiteer, Gove sees the hard Brexit lobby is looking like a busted flush so has decided to 'stick with the winning side'. He is clearly not a supporter of the deal as it is being said that he refused the job of Brexit Secretary because he could not renegotiate the deal, yet he remains a member of the cabinet which is promoting the deal to the party and the country.

 

The guy is clearly an unprincipled snake.

[Lockdoctor 10]

Hardly, as the main proponent of the "We're sick of experts" mantra, there's plenty of quite justifiable criticism for Gove to answer.

 

Given his glittering list of previous successes, you can't seriously think he would have been in any way effective.

 

This deal is the reality of the leave vote, it was always going to be this way, the only reason you're confused about that is because you were gullible to believe a transparent lie.

 

More fool you!

I haven't stated Gove would have been successful. The fact is he asked Mrs May logical questions before accepting or rejecting the job. All you have done is prove my point that you criticise those who were on the opposite side of the EU referendum vote to yourself without justification.

[Flexo 10]

Why are these Brexit people now calling for a second vote? They had a vote already and Mrs May won. They knew what they were voting for.

[Lockdoctor 10]

You don’t seem to understand the EU ratification procedure for the withdrawal agreement: all 28 Member States need to vote it through. Not just Parliament and Brussels.

 

Your time is up. EUCO is meeting on 25 November to sign it off. Either May (or her replacement) attends to sign, and signs, on behalf of the U.K. And then the ratification procedure begins (and you want to hope it all gets done in time by 29 March 2019).

 

Or it’s no deal. And they’re better prepared for it than the U.K.

 

The EU27 are long past, and tired of, ‘Brexit’. They’ve moved on to other, newer issues on their collective plates. Don’t take my word for it, take that of most highly-experienced, -connected and -respected political commentators like Adler, Islam, etc or better, that of EU heads of state like Merkel, Macron & Sanchez: there is ZERO intention amongst the EU27 to renegotiate anything.

 

May knows it. As does Gove. Even Corbyn I’m sure.

 

You can stay. Or you can divorce. If you divorce, that’s the deal. If you want one. The end.

It's quite obvious all the EU27 are in agreement with the withdrawal agreement on offer otherwise the EU wouldn't have been so quick of the mark releasing the document so soon after Mrs May announced in Downing Street that cabinet had approved the agreement and arranging a summit date. It's only the UK who haven't agreed to the agreement because of parliament. To say there is zero chance of anything being renegotiated or amended is nothing more than your biased opinion.

[Magilla 510]

All you have done is prove my point that you criticise those who were on the opposite side of the EU referendum vote to yourself without justification.

 

There's plenty of justification to criticise Gove, and your ill-informed, utterly disasterous pie in the sky notions.

 

Any deal we were ever likely to get was always going to be detrimental to the UK.

 

Now you see the reality of the folly of the entire leave movement.

 

Government is under no doubt that no-deal would be far far worse, as Raab so cleverly demonstrated last week

 

They don't need us more than we need them, quite th opposite in fact, today the EU re-iterated that the integrity of the SM was far more important than a UK deal.. oh dear, so much for those German car manufacturers you were wrong about eh

 

You're criticising the deal, IMV, without justification because it was always going to be the sort of thing that was by far the most likely.

 

You can't deliver on a fantasy!

 

---------- Post added 16-11-2018 at 13:12 ----------

 

It's quite obvious all the EU27 are in agreement with the withdrawal agreement on offer otherwise the EU wouldn't have been so quick of the mark releasing the document so soon after Mrs May announced in Downing Street that cabinet had approved the agreement and arranging a summit date.

 

It's also obvious that May was trying to keep it secret as long as possible so MP's wouldn't have time to digest it before their crucial vote.

 

If it wasn't for the EU, you might still not know the details of the deal

 

It's only the UK who haven't agreed to the agreement because of parliament. To say there is zero chance of anything being renegotiated or amended is nothing more than your biased opinion.

 

Well, that and the repeated statements to that effect that have been all over the news this morning.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Magilla

[Top Cats Hat 10]

 

You can't deliver on a fantasy!

 

The deadlock in this whole mess will only be broken when a significant number of Leave voters wake up to the fact that because they voted for something that doesn't automatically mean that it must, or can even happen.

 

I'm sure I've posted more than once that if we had a referendum to always have rain free, sunny weather on all Bank holidays (except Boxing Day of course) it would very likely be overwhelmingly supported by the electorate.

 

But then how to you implement the result of that vote?

[Lockdoctor 10]

 

It's also obvious that May was trying to keep it secret as long as possible so MP's wouldn't have time to digest it before their crucial vote.

 

If it wasn't for the EU, you might still not know the details of the deal

 

 

You make a valid point about Mrs May keeping the agreement secret until the cabinet had 'approved' the deal.

 

The EU only released the details earlier than the UK Government. The UK Government were always going to release the details before Mrs May stood up in parliament to make the announcement of the details of the agreement. Mr Corbyn thanked Mrs May for getting a copy of the agreement early.

[Magilla 510]

The EU only released the details earlier than the UK Government. The UK Government were always going to release the details before Mrs May stood up in parliament to make the announcement of the details of the agreement.

 

Of-course, 24 hours before (I heard), in an effort to sneak it through. Doesn't bode well for those Henry VIII clauses that are enacted when we leave.

 

You're going to be fuming then!

 

Mr Corbyn thanked Mrs May for getting a copy of the agreement early.

 

I'm sure he did, didn't release any details though.

[Top Cats Hat 10]

At least the 'we must negotiate in secret so as not to show our hand' nonsense is well and truly blown out of the water.

[L00b 441]

It's quite obvious all the EU27 are in agreement with the withdrawal agreement on offer otherwise the EU wouldn't have been so quick of the mark releasing the document so soon after Mrs May announced in Downing Street that cabinet had approved the agreement and arranging a summit date. It's only the UK who haven't agreed to the agreement because of parliament

More nonsense. This agreement is what the EU and the U.K. negotiation teams, as respectively instructed and empowered, have eventually arrived at.

 

“The EU” hasn’t agreed to it either: it’s still got to run the gauntlet of the EU Parliament, just the same as it’s still got to run the gauntlet of the UK Parliament.

 

Then it has to run the gauntlets of another 30-odd democratic assemblies across the EU27. As already explained to you earlier.

 

So much democracy, you must be revelling, no?

To say there is zero chance of anything being renegotiated or amended is nothing more than your biased opinion.

Not really: it’s statements of EU27 heads of state and EU representatives, reported and published today.

 

You don’t keep up with the news?

[Magilla 510]

The deadlock in this whole mess will only be broken when a significant number of Leave voters wake up to the fact that because they voted for something that doesn't automatically mean that it must, or can even happen.

 

I'm sure I've posted more than once that if we had a referendum to always have rain free, sunny weather on all Bank holidays (except Boxing Day of course) it would very likely be overwhelmingly supported by the electorate.

 

LOL, 3 years ago I would have thought that was a nonsense, no one could be that daft! .... not so much now

 

But then how to you implement the result of that vote?

 

The answer is obvious, simply re-name rain as "atmospheric water drops", job done!

[Top Cats Hat 10]

 

The answer is obvious, simply re-name rain as "atmospheric water drops", job done!

 

Much of the negotiation around the Good Friday Agreement was around a suitable form of words, not necessarily to please one side but not to offend the other. That was a negotiation between parties which were by necessity, treated with equal esteem for the whole thing to work.

 

These negotiations are between two very unequal parties (despite what the Brextremists are constantly telling us). The EU does not have to sugarcoat or reword things for the benefit of the 27 unlike Teresa May who has to present the deal as all things to all people.

 

The only hope Teresa May has for getting this plan approved is by convincing MPs that apart from remaining in the EU, it is the only realistic deal we can get.