The Consequences of Brexit [part 5] Read 1st post before posting

[Magilla 510]

Already stated before that there isn't going to be a hard border regardless of whether there is a Brexit deal.

 

Indeed, and you've been shown, time and time again.. why you are completely wrong on that.

 

That you have utterly failed to read & then comprehend the issues, even now, speaks volumes.

 

The NI border has shamefully been used as an excuse by those not accepting the referendum result and the EU in an attempt to stop the democratic wishes of the whole of the UK being carried out.

 

Of course, total nonsense, a pure delusion and disconnect from reality.

 

The NI border and maintenance of the peace agreement are paramount.

[L00b 441]

Of course the EU will be saying there is nothing to renegotiate at the moment before a parliament vote has taken place. A Labour MP sensibly suggested in parliament yesterday that the parliamentary vote about the deal should take place before Mrs May goes to the planned summit. Then the EU would have a chance to make alterations to the withdrawal agreement assuming it is rejected by parliament.

Why would the EU27 make any alterations if Parliament rejects the deal?

 

I mean, sure, if the EU27 were mean-spirited, they may well make alterations to the deal, to make it still better for their own interests, the closer the U.K. gets to the deadline and the abyss.

 

But they’re not. So they most likely won’t.

 

You don’t really understand negotiations and the relative strength of the parties to them, do you?

Personally, I think the UK should walk away from the EU without a deal and concentrate on planning for a no Brexit deal.

You’re perfectly free to keep demonstrating your lack of basic understanding of geopolitics and economics, as you have reliably done for months

[lil-minx92 10]

So.. he isn't up to the job. The stark reality. He is a Brexiteer so no surprise.

 

 

 

I see he's not resigning either, so he must think the deal is OK

 

He turned the job down because he was told he couldnt re-negotiate anything. So not much of a job there really!

[RJRB 688]

Time to drop some of the convenient and tedious catchphrases on here.

“Brexit means Brexit”..? The last few months has shown that to be no more than a soundbite.

“Project Fear” Another tag to be applied to any suggestion,opinion,argument that is contrary to the pro Brexiteers.

Two years down the line since the referendum and deadlines are just around the corner.

The only progress made is that we now have 3 options and the electorate should and could have a people’s vote.

1)Remain

2)Leave with no agreement

3)Accept May’s proposals because the EU 27 are not going to go through another round of negotiations on the basics of the deal.There will be plenty of further negotiation of some major issues,as well as the minutiae if the back stop is to be avoided.

Edited November 16, 2018 by RJRB
Wrong thread

[Top Cats Hat 10]

What amazes me is that we have a PM who is/was a remainer with a Cabinet stuffed with remainers and we are surprised that the so called negotiations have gone belly up.

I despair.

 

I have asked time and again what better deal could Brexiteers have got and nobody has ever given me a satisfactory answer.

 

In the negotiations with the EU the UK has a handful of two's and threes of different suits while the EU has a handful of aces and court cards. It makes no difference who holds the UK's hand, the outcome will always be the same.

 

So I ask again. Apart from being a bit shoutier with Barnier and Tusk, what better deal could Brexiteers get???

[nightrider 13]

So.. he isn't up to the job. The stark reality. He is a Brexiteer so no surprise.

 

 

 

I see he's not resigning either, so he must think the deal is OK

 

Well I think he has said he believes he has more chance of getting closer to hard brexit from within the cabinet, than from outside.

[truman 10]

What amazes me is that we have a PM who is/was a remainer with a Cabinet stuffed with remainers and we are surprised that the so called negotiations have gone belly up.

I despair.

 

Have any brexiteers put their head above the parapet? Or are they hiding behind everyone else and waiting for all the bullets to have been fired?

[Magilla 510]

He turned the job down because he was told he couldnt re-negotiate anything. So not much of a job there really!

 

No need, he has "full confidence" in May..... apparently.

 

A case of 3rd time lucky... nah, seems unlikely. He'd have done no better.

[L00b 441]

What amazes me is that we have a PM who is/was a remainer with a Cabinet stuffed with remainers and we are surprised that the so called negotiations have gone belly up.

I despair.

The negotiations did not go ‘belly-up’: they reflect perfectly the respective interests of the 2 parties.

 

The ‘belly-up’ bit is simply the natural, and inevitable, correction of the Brexiteers’ misplaced sense of entitlement: there was never any cake to be had and eaten.

 

No other PM, or different cabinet appointments (Davis, arch-Brexiteer, was in charge of the negotiations for 2 years btw) could have achieved more or different for the U.K.

 

Brexiteers, in fact all politicians across the board (except perhaps the few genuine imbeciles, like Dorries) are well aware of the fact, which is why none want the job.

 

Your despair is simply your realisation of the above. You’ll get over it I’m sure.

Edited November 16, 2018 by L00b

[Lockdoctor 10]

Why would the EU27 make any alterations if Parliament rejects the deal?

 

I mean, sure, if the EU27 were mean-spirited, they may well make alterations to the deal, to make it still better for their own interests, the closer the U.K. gets to the deadline and the abyss.

 

But they’re not. So they most likely won’t.

 

You don’t really understand negotiations and the relative strength of the parties to them, do you?

You’re perfectly free to keep demonstrating your lack of basic understanding of geopolitics and economics, as you have reliably done for months

You don't seem to understand any agreement big or small in never finalised until all parties involved have signed it. It is common practice for amendments to be made to any contract / agreement in order for it to be ratified.

 

---------- Post added 16-11-2018 at 12:20 ----------

 

He turned the job down because he was told he couldnt re-negotiate anything. So not much of a job there really!

Exactly. A logical thought unlike some posters who criticise those who wanted the UK to leave the EU whether their actions are justified or not.

Edited November 16, 2018 by Lockdoctor

[L00b 441]

You don't seem to understand any agreement big or small in never finalised until all parties involved have signed it. It is common practice for amendments to be made to any contract / agreement in order for it to be ratified.

You don’t seem to understand the EU ratification procedure for the withdrawal agreement: all 28 Member States need to vote it through. Not just Parliament and Brussels.

 

Your time is up. EUCO is meeting on 25 November to sign it off. Either May (or her replacement) attends to sign, and signs, on behalf of the U.K. And then the ratification procedure begins (and you want to hope it all gets done in time by 29 March 2019).

 

Or it’s no deal. And they’re better prepared for it than the U.K.

 

The EU27 are long past, and tired of, ‘Brexit’. They’ve moved on to other, newer issues on their collective plates. Don’t take my word for it, take that of most highly-experienced, -connected and -respected political commentators like Adler, Islam, etc or better, that of EU heads of state like Merkel, Macron & Sanchez: there is ZERO intention amongst the EU27 to renegotiate anything.

 

May knows it. As does Gove. Even Corbyn I’m sure.

 

You can stay. Or you can divorce. If you divorce, that’s the deal. If you want one. The end.

Edited November 16, 2018 by L00b

[Magilla 510]

Exactly. A logical thought unlike some posters who criticise those who wanted the UK to leave the EU whether their actions are justified or not.

 

Hardly, as the main proponent of the "We're sick of experts" mantra, there's plenty of quite justifiable criticism for Gove to answer.

 

Given his glittering list of previous successes, you can't seriously think he would have been in any way effective. I mean, how gullible do you have to be?

 

This deal is the reality of the leave vote, it was predicted before the referendum, it was always going to be something like this...

 

You're confused because you were gullible enough to believe a bunch of self evident lies... Shame on you!

Edited November 16, 2018 by Magilla