Resolution Foundation. Increase Pensioner Tax

[REUBEN 123 10]

Could not agree more.

 

Can't afford the exact house you want in the exact area you want.... tough. Buy something more affordable and keep moving up the ladder when income allows. Its what millions of people for decades past have had to do. Its what I am still doing now.

 

For the record there are still plenty of 3 bedroomed properties in Walkey for signfiicantly less than "£170,000".

 

Yes, CYCLONE may well have bought their house in 2001 for just £55k but back then minimum wage was around £7100 net per annum. Now the same minimum wage is over £13,800 net per annum. An increase of nearly 93%. Its all relative.

 

Besides, if we are talking about suitably qualified graduates with a degree in a desirable and valuable field then they will receive entry level earnings significantly higher than that.

 

Yes, house prices have risen and many areas that were once deemed cheap are now popular raising demand. But, what's new? Supply and demand is not a new concept. Neither is the dramatic rises and eventual crashes of property prices.

 

At the end of the day, nobody is owed a lifestyle.

 

When you finish mandatory education you have a hard but necessary choice. Get a job? Do vocational studies? Do a degree? Pick a career?

 

The outcome of that is down to one person. You make your own way in the world.

 

All this talk of inter generational conflict is absolute nonsense. Just how did these commentators think the majority of the former generation actually get into their so called comfortable positions in the first place.... most of them worked their backsides off in much harsher and less rewarded working conditions than now.

 

Lets go back say 40 years shall we..... No minimum wage, no working time directives, no 'flex working', no shared parental leave, no anti-discrimination or disability protections, no minimum paid leave, no mandatory pension offering.

 

Many of the current generation will benefit from their parents "wealth" when they die anyway. All this crazy scheme seems to achieve is to tax the hell out of the pensioners accumulated assets at source.

 

Lets say the 25s do get their £10k windfall..... Then what? What happens next time they want something but cant quite afford it. Will there be another round of experts screaming how its all so unfair?

 

The solution is simple. Want a house?, want a start up business?, want to get on the ladder in life? Do what every generation before has done.

Get a job and work for it.

 

I really do worry we are developing an ever decaying generation of people who treat university as some automatic passage in life, graduate having never done a proper days work in thier life and then expect to walk into a £30k+ salary, have a car, house and 2 holidays a year by default.

 

The world of social media and modern day television is drumming an unrelentless narrative of rich, unworthy, talentless and narcissistic characters who attact millions of fans by hardly lifting a finger who in turn are desiring to be just like them thinking the world will be handed to them on a plate.

 

Having worked up the hard way (and I must add, shamefully still just within

the boundary of being a so called millenial) I can very clearly tell them life does not work like that.

 

We are fuelling an entire generation of entilement syndrome and it has to stop now.

great post says it like it is.?

[Guest makapaka]

Never question a self appointed expert on on personal finances.

 

I’ve never professed to be an expert.

 

You just talk about a combined wage of £54k like it’s nothing.

 

If robin is correct (and I’m not suggesting otherwise) then I’m pleased that situation has improved. Youre still talking about a young couple having to save up whilst house prices continue to rise most likely quicker than they can save.

 

---------- Post added 08-05-2018 at 20:43 ----------

 

great post says it like it is.?

 

I agree there shouldn’t be an assumption of entitlement but some people will never be able to afford it and there is no council provision anymore to fall back on. What about those people?

 

---------- Post added 08-05-2018 at 20:50 ----------

 

I’m not actually looking for two first time buyers on £27K each, I’m actually looking at the affordability criteria of two people on national average wages buying a £170K property with a £10K deposit.

 

Is that easy enough for you to understand?

 

Ok so the average wage in Sheffield is £22.5k.

 

What do you do if you work full time and earn the average wage?

[ukdobby 224]

Bought my 1st in Wincobank,would have loved to have bought one in Fulwood then but couldn't afford it,likes been said and moved up accordingly until I got the one I wanted.

[Longcol 604]

 

Lets go back say 40 years shall we..... No minimum wage, no working time directives, no 'flex working', no shared parental leave, no anti-discrimination or disability protections, no minimum paid leave, no mandatory pension offering.

 

 

No zero hours contracts, greater job security, low council rents or a tax break on your mortgage (MIRAS), 3 bed terrace in Walkley for a couple of grand, strong trade unions so most of us had paid leave and decent T&C's, easy to find a job with a take home of over £20 a week, final salary pension schemes.

 

And we had flexi-time when I started work (NHS) over 40 years ago - lowest clerical grade and could afford to rent a room in a shared house, go out just about every night, go to gigs and buy LP's most weeks......................

Edited May 8, 2018 by Longcol

[ECCOnoob 1,050]

No zero hours contracts

 

Yes there was. It just hadn't been given a snappy media friendly buzz word.

 

It was called casual labour. I should know because I used to do it.

 

I was employed with no fixed hours and was put on a shift as an when the company needed me dependant on demand.

 

greater job security

 

That's pretty arguable. There were certainly less protections and procedure for dismissing and disciplining employees back then. Employment Rights have changed dramatically and mostly in the favour of the employee.

 

low council rents or a tax break on your mortgage (MIRAS)

 

Council rents would have been relative to wages. Besides, we are supposed to be talking about purchasing property not local authority subsidised renters.

 

Tax breaks may well have existed but for many mortgage payers in the 70s and 80s interest was up at 15 / 18 per cent. Certainly not the 2-5 per cent available now to buyers.

 

3 bed terrace in Walkley for a couple of grand, strong trade unions so most of us had paid leave and decent T&C's, easy to find a job with a take home of over £20 a week

 

The merits of being in the trade union are definately arguable. For every example of their great success there will be many more arguments about their bullying and intimidating methods, their mandatory joining for new recruits in certain industries, their closed shop nature and their negative impact on an industry as a whole.

 

As for the other points about house property and salary, I refer back to what I said earlier. Its all relative. Minimum wage now is approaching x15 that amount each week.

 

final salary pension schemes.

And we had flexi-time when I started work (NHS) over 40 years ago - lowest clerical grade

 

You may have within the NHS yes but that was certainly the exception not the norm for most people. Flexible working certainly wasn't mandatory in employment law.

 

 

and could afford to rent a room in a shared house, go out just about every night, go to gigs and buy LP's most weeks......................

 

I think you will find lots of entry level workers can do just that now. Graduates certainly can.

[Cyclone 10]

Eyup, it’s left wing, glass half empty, loser time, do you have an excuse for never having a positive thought? And you can add whatever you like to your nonsense, life is for living, the prerequisite being having a life to live.

 

I don't think changing it into a personal attack on me will alter the reality that previous generations got a financial easy ride at the expense of millenials and people reaching adulthood today.

Pretend it's not happening if you like, make up nonsense about how affordable homes in Walkley are, but don't be surprised when they're in power in a decade and you find your pension cancelled and your home sold off to pay for your medical care. You reap what you sow.

 

---------- Post added 08-05-2018 at 21:16 ----------

 

Maybe you could tell us why it is a good scheme then as that will only require one person to explain, you.

 

And who said it was just about buying a house?

 

I didn't say that it was a good scheme, I'm not in denial though that I had it easier than someone turning 20 today.

 

---------- Post added 08-05-2018 at 21:16 ----------

 

What's difficult in buying a house in an area they can afford?

 

Why's it difficult to understand that the real price of houses has increased massively in the last 2 decades?

 

---------- Post added 08-05-2018 at 21:17 ----------

 

The housing crisis all comes down to the law of supply and demand; when demand exceeds supply, prices go up. The high demand for houses has the same root cause as all this country's social and economic problems-an unsustainable population thanks to decades of uncontrolled immigration. This has been a ticking time bomb for decades which has been ignored and denied but now the bomb has gone off and the walking wounded are young Brits who can't afford to get on the property ladder. Unless the government gets a grip and stops any more people apart from a few highly skilled workers coming in, things will only get worse. The only solution is to cover this green and pleasant land in houses for the ever spiralling population.

 

Wow, what a load of complete tosh. It's so totally unsupported by any evidence that it just makes you shake your head.

I suppose if the brown people all left then all our problems would be magically solved. Of you go and vote UKIP.

 

---------- Post added 08-05-2018 at 21:19 ----------

 

I’m not actually looking for two first time buyers on £27K each, I’m actually looking at the affordability criteria of two people on national average wages buying a £170K property with a £10K deposit.

 

Is that easy enough for you to understand?

 

So you're not actually looking at first time buyers or young adults then?

Or you're being entirely unrealistic and expecting a young couple in Sheffield to be over achieving so much that they've already reached the average NATIONAL wage (which is the average across all age groups) and to have saved 10k for a deposit.

The average wage in Sheffield is about 22k I think. The average wage amongst the under 30's, lower. And when renting costs £600 - £750/month, saving that 10k isn't that easy either.

 

---------- Post added 08-05-2018 at 21:28 ----------

 

Could not agree more.

 

Can't afford the exact house you want in the exact area you want.... tough. Buy something more affordable and keep moving up the ladder when income allows. Its what millions of people for decades past have had to do. Its what I am still doing now.

 

For the record there are still plenty of 3 bedroomed properties in Walkey for signfiicantly less than "£170,000".

 

Yes, CYCLONE may well have bought their house in 2001 for just £55k but back then minimum wage was around £7100 net per annum. Now the same minimum wage is over £13,800 net per annum. An increase of nearly 93%. Its all relative.

No it's not.

I've already posted the actual data about the relative cost of housing.

House prices in Walkley have tripled since 2000.

The increase in minimum wage has barely kept ahead of inflation. And frankly it's irrelevant, nobody on minimum wage then or now was buying a house in Walkley, never mind saving up a deposit.

 

Besides, if we are talking about suitably qualified graduates with a degree in a desirable and valuable field then they will receive entry level earnings significantly higher than that.

Go on then, evidence that. I happen to actually know lots of recent graduates...

 

Yes, house prices have risen and many areas that were once deemed cheap are now popular raising demand. But, what's new? Supply and demand is not a new concept. Neither is the dramatic rises and eventual crashes of property prices.

 

At the end of the day, nobody is owed a lifestyle.

Thus spake the baby boomers, pull up the drawbridge behind you. The following generations aren't owed anything. Just remember that when their taxes are paying for your carehomes and healthcare.

 

Lets go back say 40 years shall we..... No minimum wage, no working time directives, no 'flex working', no shared parental leave, no anti-discrimination or disability protections, no minimum paid leave, no mandatory pension offering.

Jobs for life, relatively well paid manual work at low skill, proper apprenticeships.

 

Many of the current generation will benefit from their parents "wealth" when they die anyway. All this crazy scheme seems to achieve is to tax the hell out of the pensioners accumulated assets at source.

Brilliant, that'll really help them.

They'll have retired themselves before their parents leave them anything.

My parents have had a small inheritance from one side, but they're already retired and my grandad on the other side is still going strong.

I fully expect to be retired before my parents are in any danger of popping off!

I snipped the rest of the uniformed ranting. I simply can't be bothered to keep pointing out the factual inaccuracies, the lack of understanding of how the fundamentals of changed.

[El Cid 220]

The housing crisis all comes down to the law of supply and demand; when demand exceeds supply, prices go up. The high demand for houses has the same root cause as all this country's social and economic problems-an unsustainable population thanks to decades of uncontrolled immigration.

 

And so the supply and demand system is not working.

 

On average, working people could expect to pay around 7.6 times their annual earnings on purchasing a home in England and Wales in 2016, up from 3.6 times earnings in 1997

 

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/housing/bulletins/housingaffordabilityinenglandandwales/1997to2016

 

Instead of encouraging immigration, we should skill the UK population so immigrants are only needed to as lesser extent.

But the main solution would be to get rid of this crazy idea that we can build on brown field sites, year after year.

 

Manchester’s population is growing nearly 15 TIMES faster than homes are being built, new analysis reveals.

 

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/property/population-growth-outstrips-new-housing-12652058

[ECCOnoob 1,050]

 

Why's it difficult to understand that the real price of houses has increased massively in the last 2 decades?

 

So have wages.

 

There was no such thing as a mandatory minimum wage until the introduction of the act with the first payments not applying until 1 April 1999.

 

Before then you got paid what a company decided you were worth or whatever you could argue from your boss.

 

Even when the Act first came in the hourly rate for an adult was £3.60 compared to todays £7.83.

 

Try £6,200 a year as in line with my first full time job. Compared to national madatory minimum £13,100.

 

Lets not forget that the tax free allowance back then was just £4600 compared to today's £11800.

 

As I keep saying. Its all relative.

[Cyclone 10]

Graduates certainly can.

 

Can they? Do you know how many graduates end up in zero hours contracts or "the gig economy"? It's very high.

The rise of zero hours contracts has been well documented, yes a small proportion of work like that always existed, but now it's exploited and is not a small proportion.

 

I don't quite understand the vehement denial of the facts.

It's like the slightly older don't want to acknowledge how the game has changed and how it's harder now than it was for them. Are you scared that someone might take it away from you? Or just so selfish that you don't care?

 

And the constant reference to the minimum wage, it's entirely irrelevant, MW doesn't mean that someone can afford to buy a house, so why bother mentioning it.

House prices to average earnings ratio has increased massively. Houses are FAR MORE expensive today than they were in the past, it's not an opinion, it's an objectively measured fact.

 

---------- Post added 08-05-2018 at 21:33 ----------

 

So have wages.

 

Simply not true.

No, it's not relative. REAL house prices, adjusted for inflation have increased.

If you want to argue you're first going to have to actually go and find the facts out, because otherwise you just look like an idiot.

[Longcol 604]

So have wages.

 

 

No they haven't.

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/wages

 

Average wage £300pw in 2000, currently £513pw - nothing like doubled.

[ECCOnoob 1,050]

No they haven't.

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-kingdom/wages

 

Average wage £300pw in 2000, currently £513pw - nothing like doubled.

 

Increased by 71% then based on your exampled "average"

[area 51 10]

Could not agree more.

 

Can't afford the exact house you want in the exact area you want.... tough. Buy something more affordable and keep moving up the ladder when income allows. Its what millions of people for decades past have had to do. Its what I am still doing now.

 

For the record there are still plenty of 3 bedroomed properties in Walkey for signfiicantly less than "£170,000".

 

Yes, CYCLONE may well have bought their house in 2001 for just £55k but back then minimum wage was around £7100 net per annum. Now the same minimum wage is over £13,800 net per annum. An increase of nearly 93%. Its all relative.

 

Besides, if we are talking about suitably qualified graduates with a degree in a desirable and valuable field then they will receive entry level earnings significantly higher than that.

 

Yes, house prices have risen and many areas that were once deemed cheap are now popular raising demand. But, what's new? Supply and demand is not a new concept. Neither is the dramatic rises and eventual crashes of property prices.

 

At the end of the day, nobody is owed a lifestyle.

 

When you finish mandatory education you have a hard but necessary choice. Get a job? Do vocational studies? Do a degree? Pick a career?

 

The outcome of that is down to one person. You make your own way in the world.

 

All this talk of inter generational conflict is absolute nonsense. Just how did these commentators think the majority of the former generation actually get into their so called comfortable positions in the first place.... most of them worked their backsides off in much harsher and less rewarded working conditions than now.

 

Lets go back say 40 years shall we..... No minimum wage, no working time directives, no 'flex working', no shared parental leave, no anti-discrimination or disability protections, no minimum paid leave, no mandatory pension offering.

 

Many of the current generation will benefit from their parents "wealth" when they die anyway. All this crazy scheme seems to achieve is to tax the hell out of the pensioners accumulated assets at source.

 

Lets say the 25s do get their £10k windfall..... Then what? What happens next time they want something but cant quite afford it. Will there be another round of experts screaming how its all so unfair?

 

The solution is simple. Want a house?, want a start up business?, want to get on the ladder in life? Do what every generation before has done.

Get a job and work for it.

 

I really do worry we are developing an ever decaying generation of people who treat university as some automatic passage in life, graduate having never done a proper days work in thier life and then expect to walk into a £30k+ salary, have a car, house and 2 holidays a year by default.

 

The world of social media and modern day television is drumming an unrelentless narrative of rich, unworthy, talentless and narcissistic characters who attact millions of fans by hardly lifting a finger who in turn are desiring to be just like them thinking the world will be handed to them on a plate.

 

Having worked up the hard way (and I must add, shamefully still just within

the boundary of being a so called millenial) I can very clearly tell them life does not work like that.

 

We are fuelling an entire generation of entilement syndrome and it has to stop now.

Good post,totally agree with you,i worked long hours and gave up lots of leisure time to now be in a position of owning my own home with a paid for mortgage and money in the bank.My parents had nothing and they were supposed to be the lucky baby boomers.It takes time,good things come to those who wait.

Edited May 8, 2018 by area 51