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Cyclists going through red lights. Localised colour blindness?

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Given that filtering is legal and expected and that cars shouldn't maneuver without checking their mirrors, it's really not the fault of a filtering rider (of either kind) if a car driver maneuvers without checking it's safe to do so.

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Given that filtering is legal and expected and that cars shouldn't maneuver without checking their mirrors, it's really not the fault of a filtering rider (of either kind) if a car driver maneuvers without checking it's safe to do so.

 

Cycle filtering (undertaking) is inherently dangerous.

The claim that it is "legal" is only by interpretation of highway code and regulations that were written for cars in lanes.

 

The responsibility is shared by both the motorist, who by law must check that it is safe before moving off or manoeuvring, and the cyclist who should not nip about at unsafe speeds that could put themselves at risk by understanding that there can be a gap between a motorist seeing all is clear in their mirrors and actually moving off.

 

Is it not unreasonable, if cars are expected to give 1.5m clearance when overtaking a cyclist, to suggest that undertaking filterers should only do so if there is a space of at least 1.5m to do so?

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Given that filtering is legal and expected and that cars shouldn't maneuver without checking their mirrors, it's really not the fault of a filtering rider (of either kind) if a car driver maneuvers without checking it's safe to do so.

 

Mirrors don't cover blind spots. If you filter between two lanes of slow or stationary traffic on a bike then you have to share part of the risk, as whilst you are overtaking one lane of cars you are also effectively undertaking the other lane of cars, and undertaking shouldn't be done.

 

It would be quite reasonable for a motorist not to see a cyclist whizzing down the road in-between two lanes of traffic. Both motorist and cyclist would share the blame. Especially if the cyclist undertakes in the narrow gap between the cars and the pavement, which isn't filtering, but undertaking.

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I drive and I find that I can turn my head. My eyes then cover my blind spot.

If I drive into a bike of either kind when changing lanes, it's entirely my fault. It's absolutely (by law) my job to ensure that changing lanes is safe to do so. It even specifically says in the HC to look out for bikes doesn't it?

 

Filtering can be to the inside or outside, obviously cyclists don't want to end up stranded in the centre when the traffic accelerates on their inside.

 

---------- Post added 17-09-2018 at 17:43 ----------

 

Cycle filtering (undertaking) is inherently dangerous.

The claim that it is "legal" is only by interpretation of highway code and regulations that were written for cars in lanes.

 

The responsibility is shared by both the motorist, who by law must check that it is safe before moving off or manoeuvring, and the cyclist who should not nip about at unsafe speeds that could put themselves at risk by understanding that there can be a gap between a motorist seeing all is clear in their mirrors and actually moving off.

 

Is it not unreasonable, if cars are expected to give 1.5m clearance when overtaking a cyclist, to suggest that undertaking filterers should only do so if there is a space of at least 1.5m to do so?

 

 

I think you should book yourself onto a remedial drivers course... And buy a copy of the HC.

 

Rule 211

It is often difficult to see motorcyclists and cyclists, especially when they are coming up from behind, coming out of junctions, at roundabouts, overtaking you or filtering through traffic. Always look out for them before you emerge from a junction; they could be approaching faster than you think. When turning right across a line of slow-moving or stationary traffic, look out for cyclists or motorcyclists on the inside of the traffic you are crossing. Be especially careful when turning, and when changing direction or lane. Be sure to check mirrors and blind spots carefully.

 

Warpig, you should read that rule as well.

 

---------- Post added 17-09-2018 at 17:46 ----------

 

And of course the 1.5m overtaking requirement is for the safety of cyclists cgksheff. Motorists are in no danger from filtering cycles, so no, there should be and is no requirement for 1.5m clearance when filtering.

Edited by Cyclone

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I think you may find insurance companies take a slightly different view when allocating blame. In any case, being in the right is on no consequence when your 6ft under. Filtering is most definitely done at your own risk, regardless of blame.

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On Monday there was is a 1/2 mile queue from Brookhill Roundabout up past commonside. It was a little longer than normal but not unusual for the time of year.

 

 

I'm on my bike heading inbound,

 

so do I queue with the cars breathing in all the noxious stuff they are inflicting on themselves and lose 10-15 minutes out of a 35-minute ride? If so I may as well drive to work

 

do I use the pavement (clearly a non-starter)

 

do I filter with care down the LHS looking out for pedestrian and passengers opening up doors and the odd driver who thinks its funny to pull across and deliberately block you

 

do I go on the RHS and take a chance with the PTWs doing the same overtake?

 

I normally take the last option.

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On Monday there was is a 1/2 mile queue from Brookhill Roundabout up past commonside. It was a little longer than normal but not unusual for the time of year.

 

 

I'm on my bike heading inbound,

 

so do I queue with the cars breathing in all the noxious stuff they are inflicting on themselves and lose 10-15 minutes out of a 35-minute ride? If so I may as well drive to work

 

do I use the pavement (clearly a non-starter)

 

do I filter with care down the LHS looking out for pedestrian and passengers opening up doors and the odd driver who thinks its funny to pull across and deliberately block you

 

do I go on the RHS and take a chance with the PTWs doing the same overtake?

 

I normally take the last option.

 

As tempting as it is to filter down the left side, I always try to do it on the right hand side, as overtaking is usually done on the right. I do it with extra care though, as you never know if a car is going to suddenly do a U-turn, or pull out. You have to expect that non of the motorists have seen you.

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I think you may find insurance companies take a slightly different view when allocating blame. In any case, being in the right is on no consequence when your 6ft under. Filtering is most definitely done at your own risk, regardless of blame.

 

I never said otherwise.

Insurance companies are notorious for just going 50/50 if they get the chance. I've heard stories of people who've been t-boned from a side junction and they have to argue with the insurance company not to go 50/50.

 

But you said "cars aren't expecting you to come up alongside them".

They should be, the highway code makes it very clear.

So if they aren't, then those people are bad drivers. And then you talked about the blame, not insurance. NO, the filtering rider doesn't have to accept the blame, unless they did something specifically wrong, which filtering is not.

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Filtering is something that is done at the riders risk. Whilst a car shouldn’t manoeuvre unless it’s safe to do so, as a cyclist you have to accept and expect that they might not have seen you.

 

Filtering at anything other than a safe speed where you can stop safely, will make you partly blameworthy. It’s not a case of ‘im In the right so I’m ok’. You can be fully ‘in the right’ but find yourself in the back of an ambulance or hearse.

Edited by WarPig

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Filtering is something that is done at the riders risk. Whilst a car shouldn’t manoeuvre unless it’s safe to do so, as a cyclist you have to accept and expect that they might not have seen you.

 

Filtering at anything other than a safe speed where you can stop safely, will make you partly blameworthy. It’s not a case of ‘im In the right so I’m ok’. You can be fully ‘in the right’ but find yourself in the back of an ambulance or hearse.

 

Try reading Davis vs Shrogin where it is held that slow speed filtering is not at the riders sole risk.

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Filtering is something that is done at the riders risk. Whilst a car shouldn’t manoeuvre unless it’s safe to do so, as a cyclist you have to accept and expect that they might not have seen you.

Simply not true.

Obviously as a cyclist I spend most of my time assuming that cars haven't seen me. But that won't somehow make me to blame which is what you claimed.

 

Filtering at anything other than a safe speed where you can stop safely, will make you partly blameworthy. It’s not a case of ‘im In the right so I’m ok’. You can be fully ‘in the right’ but find yourself in the back of an ambulance or hearse.

 

Filtering at high speed (not really possible on a cycle) would be irresponsible. But if someone pulls out on you without looking then they are ENTIRELY to blame, unless you're going so fast that you could have been out of sight when they looked.

And again, I never claimed that being in the right will protect you from injury.

You however didn't make a statement about injury, you made a statement about blame and claimed that bikes (cycle/motor) would share responsibility if filtering. This is NOT true.

If theres an accident while filtering then the biker has to accept part of the blame, even if done correctly.

That is untrue. Wrong. Not the case. Incorrect.

 

CGKSheff agreed with you, but hasn't responded since the highway code rule covering the issue was posted.

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On Monday there was is a 1/2 mile queue from Brookhill Roundabout up past commonside. It was a little longer than normal but not unusual for the time of year.

 

i don't doubt it.

 

the queue often stretches 700m back to beanies. Given that a ford focus is 4.5m long, that's a queue with 120 cars in it, maybe less.

 

let's be gracious, and say that means 150 people. That's a half-mile queue, with a 150 people in it.

 

so much space, and disruption, caused by 150 people. Cars are great, they really are. but we simply haven't got the space for everyone to drive everywhere.

Edited by ads36

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