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Gender pay gap!

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"A woman's work is never done" That's the reason they don't get paid as much... :D

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Is it as simple as a choice, why are there fewer female pilots and fewer male flight attendants?

 

I suspect it's part down to natural physiological differences between men and women, and part down to social conditioning of boys of girls. We can do something about the latter.

 

Also, could be an element of prejudice, either from the person making the hiring decision, or the general work force (making work life unpleasant for certain demographics of people, so they don't stay in the job).

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And I guess that's the point of these statistics, they don't address the issues you've just pointed out, but they do give us more information to bring to the problem and in the future a year on year comparison to see how things are changing.

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I suspect there are at least two causes...

 

Societal expectations that mean that girls are frowned upon for wanting to become airline pilots...

 

"poor" choices by girls in education meaning that they are not academically equipped to become airline pilots

 

I say "poor" choices as this is not exactly their fault if they are pressured into say soft sciences/humanities away from STEM subjects etc...

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I suspect there are at least two causes...

 

Societal expectations that mean that girls are frowned upon for wanting to become airline pilots...

 

"poor" choices by girls in education meaning that they are not academically equipped to become airline pilots

 

I say "poor" choices as this is not exactly their fault if they are pressured into say soft sciences/humanities away from STEM subjects etc...

 

Why is anyone 'forced'? Maybe the young lasses look at the likes of TOWIE and Geordie Shore and think 'stuff working for a living, i want to paint my face and get paid to just look nice' (even though the people on those shows are horrid!). And when that doesn't happen, they choose to become airline stewards instead of pilots because it's a lot more glamourous. It also costs about £100k to train to become a qualified pilot, so maybe that's a factor?

 

Or, is it nature kicking and it's a females tendencies to be care givers that makes them want to look after the people in the back whilst the pilot gets people to places safely? But, on a flight, which is most important - the one handing out cans of lager or the ones in control of said flying death trap?

 

Unless we survey ever person on the planet, we'll never fully understand why things are as they are. How much of it is choice? How much is environment?

 

We think we've gotten it so right? What about your tribes in the jungles and deserts where the men hunt and the women look after the group. Everyone seems quite happy and they get along great with where they are in their group, whilst we who have 'progressed' beyond that in the 'first world' are screwing each other for everything we can get - be it politics, religion or money. Are we just fight against the natural order of things?

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Why is anyone 'forced'? Maybe the young lasses look at the likes of TOWIE and Geordie Shore and think 'stuff working for a living, i want to paint my face and get paid to just look nice' (even though the people on those shows are horrid!). And when that doesn't happen, they choose to become airline stewards instead of pilots because it's a lot more glamourous. It also costs about £100k to train to become a qualified pilot, so maybe that's a factor?

 

Or, is it nature kicking and it's a females tendencies to be care givers that makes them want to look after the people in the back whilst the pilot gets people to places safely? But, on a flight, which is most important - the one handing out cans of lager or the ones in control of said flying death trap?

 

Unless we survey ever person on the planet, we'll never fully understand why things are as they are. How much of it is choice? How much is environment?

 

We think we've gotten it so right? What about your tribes in the jungles and deserts where the men hunt and the women look after the group. Everyone seems quite happy and they get along great with where they are in their group, whilst we who have 'progressed' beyond that in the 'first world' are screwing each other for everything we can get - be it politics, religion or money. Are we just fight against the natural order of things?

 

I think society's expectation still plays a huge part in the gender divide in employment. People choices are on many occasion dictated by the environment they grow up in. If adults see the natural order of things as 'men hunt and the women look after the group', then it's hardly a surprise that boys and girls go into the jobs that they do....

 

I've no problem with the Government wanting a comprehensive look at the figures; nothing wrong with wanting to look at disparities. Hopefully this might go someway to addressing imbalances where it can.

 

My own opinion on this matter is that it's a bit of a wasted opportunity. I would like the Government to take a more concerted look at disparities in the round. For example in the public sector and third sector many organisations are riven with unfairnesses that are staggering - with chief executives, senior management earning a fortune, while those on the front line - providing the public services, are being cut back in numbers to the point where the public are suffering. It's iniquitous and wrong.

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I think society's expectation still plays a huge part in the gender divide in employment. People choices are on many occasion dictated by the environment they grow up in. If adults see the natural order of things as 'men hunt and the women look after the group', then it's hardly a surprise that boys and girls go into the jobs that they do....

 

I've no problem with the Government wanting a comprehensive look at the figures; nothing wrong with wanting to look at disparities. Hopefully this might go someway to addressing imbalances where it can.

 

My own opinion on this matter is that it's a bit of a wasted opportunity. I would like the Government to take a more concerted look at disparities in the round. For example in the public sector and third sector many organisations are riven with unfairnesses that are staggering - with chief executives, senior management earning a fortune, while those on the front line - providing the public services, are being cut back in numbers to the point where the public are suffering. It's iniquitous and wrong.

 

The problem is that the way the pay gap figures are compiled means the figures gained are anything but comprehensive and useless in calculating any disparities.

You could use the same formula to calculate what people with dark hair get paid as apposed to light hair, or blue eyes vs brown and there would be a difference shown, it wouldnt show discrimination against the lower paid groups in either case though.

The figures can be used if youre looking for a stick to beat your own tambourine with to make an invalid claim and i think thats all it will be used for.

 

I think the majority of people misunderstand the figure and dont know how its calculated and therefore think that it means men and women in the same job get paid a different rate of pay and thats clearly not what it shows at all.

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Why is anyone 'forced'? Maybe the young lasses look at the likes of TOWIE and Geordie Shore and think 'stuff working for a living, i want to paint my face and get paid to just look nice' (even though the people on those shows are horrid!). And when that doesn't happen, they choose to become airline stewards instead of pilots because it's a lot more glamourous. It also costs about £100k to train to become a qualified pilot, so maybe that's a factor?

 

Or, is it nature kicking and it's a females tendencies to be care givers that makes them want to look after the people in the back whilst the pilot gets people to places safely? But, on a flight, which is most important - the one handing out cans of lager or the ones in control of said flying death trap?

 

Unless we survey ever person on the planet, we'll never fully understand why things are as they are. How much of it is choice? How much is environment?

 

We think we've gotten it so right? What about your tribes in the jungles and deserts where the men hunt and the women look after the group. Everyone seems quite happy and they get along great with where they are in their group, whilst we who have 'progressed' beyond that in the 'first world' are screwing each other for everything we can get - be it politics, religion or money. Are we just fight against the natural order of things?

 

Firstly, he didn't say forced, you did.

Secondly, the rest of your post is like an apology for societal pressures that disadvantage women existing.

 

---------- Post added 06-04-2018 at 07:23 ----------

 

The problem is that the way the pay gap figures are compiled means the figures gained are anything but comprehensive and useless in calculating any disparities.

You could use the same formula to calculate what people with dark hair get paid as apposed to light hair, or blue eyes vs brown and there would be a difference shown, it wouldnt show discrimination against the lower paid groups in either case though.

The figures can be used if youre looking for a stick to beat your own tambourine with to make an invalid claim and i think thats all it will be used for.

 

I think the majority of people misunderstand the figure and dont know how its calculated and therefore think that it means men and women in the same job get paid a different rate of pay and thats clearly not what it shows at all.

 

Are there really going to be people trying to discuss the issue who haven't even bothered to find out what this particular measure is measuring?

It will be very easy to point out their misconception won't it!

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Youd think so but a lot of people misunderstand percentages and only go on click bait headlines. The figures are being misused for peoples own agendas and to mislead those who dont understand fully. People love a good cause to back these days on their social media platforms dont they!

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Youd think so but a lot of people misunderstand percentages and only go on click bait headlines. The figures are being misused for peoples own agendas and to mislead those who dont understand fully. People love a good cause to back these days on their social media platforms dont they!

 

Do you agree with me that gender equality is a good cause?

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I never said it wasnt a good cause, in fact its not even a cause is it, just how it should be.

The problem is this exercise is futile and pointless and only serves as baton to be beaten with rather than being a true reflection of equality in pay.

 

One headline today said that women in the nhs get paid 25% less than their male counterparts! No mention of the pay grades system within the nhs etc.

Very misleading as an exercise on the whole.

Will lead to positive discriminiatiion no doubt in an effort to show that the employers are trying to reduce the “pay gap”.

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Firstly, he didn't say forced, you did.

Secondly, the rest of your post is like an apology for societal pressures that disadvantage women existing.

 

---------- Post added 06-04-2018 at 07:23 ----------

 

 

Are there really going to be people trying to discuss the issue who haven't even bothered to find out what this particular measure is measuring?

It will be very easy to point out their misconception won't it!

 

Ah... OK, so no one is forcing women in to the roles they're deciding to take?

 

And I'm not apologizing for anything - it just seems to me, in my opinion, that women are being told they must do this and that for the greater good of the sisterhood. I agree that pay should be fair and equal, but as many have said, there appears to be a lack of consideration for the actual job descriptions and roles that are being published.

 

Again, the example of Ryanair where the spokesperson mentioned the difference in pay between a pilot and a stewardess and maybe the problem is more about the lack of female pilots. Well, maybe women are more attracted to the 'glamour' side of air travel as opposed to sitting in a tiny cockpit. I'd also be interested to see a figure of the amount of gay men that are airline stewards as they also seem to be attracted to this side of the industry. Why aren't we trying to get more heterosexual men to become stewards? (I know, I know - you'll probably call me out on this bit for some 70s style thinking. But, honestly, if you watch any documentary to do with airlines, you can't tell me this isn't a 'thing', as the youth would say)

 

You can't force someone to do a job they're not bothered about simply to just push an agenda.

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