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Child Genital Mutilation

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15 hours ago, Halibut said:

Peoples fears tend to be allayed by information, knowing their rights and support. Schools can help with those things.

and what happens when these support/schools etc let them down ?

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3 minutes ago, ricgem2002 said:

and what happens when these support/schools etc let them down ?

Are you trying to argue that we shouldn't educate and support these girls and women in case it doesn't work? I don't really understand what you're getting at.

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34 minutes ago, Halibut said:

I really don't know where you're going with this, but I don't think it's a helpful avenue to explore and coupled with your stated intent for girls and young women to face compulsory examinations of their genitalia it makes me feel very uneasy.

Expand on why you're feeling so uneasy? 

 

NHS England statistics coupled with the solitary convtion in 34 years is making me feel uneasy as it confirms authorities are doing nowhere near enough to combat FGM.  Care to comment?

 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Halibut said:

Are you trying to argue that we shouldn't educate and support these girls and women in case it doesn't work? I don't really understand what you're getting at.

no i said what happens when these support/schools let them down where do they go from there ? 

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2 minutes ago, danot said:

Expand on why you're feeling so uneasy? 

 

NHS England statistics coupled with the solitary convtion in 34 years is making me feel uneasy as it confirms authorities are doing nowhere near enough to combat FGM.  Care to comment?

 

 

 

I'm uneasy because you were asking for specific details about physical signs of sexual abuse, and had earlier been suggesting compulsory genital examinations. 

As for the other bit, I'd comment that yes, one conviction isn't enough. On the other hand, there have been a couple of hundred Protection Orders made to safeguard girls. I think it's also worth pointing out that FGM wasn't really much discussed until relatively recently. I'd like to think that with high quality education, support for those at risk* and investigation and prosecution of the offenders, that over time, it'll be eradicated.

 

 

*no compulsory examinations of genitalia though

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9 minutes ago, ricgem2002 said:

no i said what happens when these support/schools let them down where do they go from there ? 

Do you mean if some girls and women aren't given the help they need and become victims of FGM?

Well, I'd like to think they could be offered psychological support and medical help where possible (surgery can help in some cases) and that those responsible can be identified and brought before a court.

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15 hours ago, danot said:

'Doing nothing' was never an option for me. I'm thinking 'deterrent' rather than prosecutions, and yearly examinations is the only effective 'deterrent' that I can think of.  

 

Sexual abuse victims?

 

What level of sexual abuse? You'll need to be specific about the physical sign of sexual abuse the examiner would be looking for in order for me to answer.

 

I totally agree with you on this point ^. However, this point undermines the point you made ealier when you suggested that 'the very same young girls' (who are being made aware of their rights and supported by their schools ) would become worried about family members being imprisoned as a direct consequence of having a physical examination. Wouldnt they be worried in any instance?

Again. You appear to be suggesting that such 'worries' would only be attributable to the examination and nothing else. 

 

 

Because there's been one FGM conviction since it was outlawed 34 years ago. Evidently, the current approach cannot be working if we're to believe recent reports detailing the scale of FGM cases. 

 

The practice is cloaked in secrecy. NHS England statistics show that 1,015 FGM cases were newly recorded between April and June 2018, bringing the total number of survivors recorded in the UK to 17,330 since 2015, but a study estimated that 137,000 women and girls who have migrated to England and Wales are living with the consequences of FGM. Cutters are even being flown into the UK to carry out the procedures to order.

 

 

The current approach started this year, with it becoming compulsory within the national curriculum in February. Also, I'm not sure that my idea that FGM should treated the same as other forms of sexual abuse is currently the case.

 

Also, where are we going to get the professionals to carry out the intimate checks on the young girls genitalia? Currently some young girls have been in foster care for months waiting the checks. So how would we handle you idea of every muslim girl being checked annually?

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4 minutes ago, Halibut said:

Do you mean if some girls and women aren't given the help they need and become victims of FGM?

Well, I'd like to think they could be offered psychological support and medical help where possible (surgery can help in some cases) and that those responsible can be identified and brought before a court.

thanks for clearing that up 

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1 minute ago, Halibut said:

I'm uneasy because you were asking for specific details about physical signs of sexual abuse, and had earlier been suggesting compulsory genital examinations. 

As for the other bit, I'd comment that yes, one conviction isn't enough. On the other hand, there have been a couple of hundred Protection Orders made to safeguard girls. I think it's also worth pointing out that FGM wasn't really much discussed until relatively recently. I'd like to think that with high quality education, support for those at risk* and investigation and prosecution of the offenders, that over time, it'll be eradicated.

 

 

*no compulsory examinations of genitalia though

Carrying out intimate examinations on young, female victims of sexual abuse wouldn't necessarily detect sexual abuse in every case, even if she was a victim of sexual abuse, the result may be inconclusive, and if there were signs of abuse, it wouldn't necessarily compromise or incriminate the persons responsible, nor would it act as a deterrent in general. It wouldn't change anything, whereas determining whether a young girl is a victim of FGM  would be conclusive either way100% of the time. Her parents/guardians are responsible, and it acts as a deterrent to discourage others.

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1 minute ago, danot said:

Carrying out intimate examinations on young, female victims of sexual abuse wouldn't necessarily detect sexual abuse in every case, even if she was a victim of sexual abuse, the result may be inconclusive, and if there were signs of abuse, it wouldn't necessarily compromise or incriminate the persons responsible, nor would it act as a deterrent in general. It wouldn't change anything, whereas determining whether a young girl is a victim of FGM  would be conclusive either way100% of the time. Her parents/guardians are responsible, and it acts as a deterrent to discourage others.

What does?

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1 hour ago, JFKvsNixon said:

The current approach started this year, with it becoming compulsory within the national curriculum in February. Also, I'm not sure that my idea that FGM should treated the same as other forms of sexual abuse is currently the case.

 

Also, where are we going to get the professionals to carry out the intimate checks on the young girls genitalia? Currently some young girls have been in foster care for months waiting the checks. So how would we handle you idea of every muslim girl being checked annually?

Examining every vulnerable girl wouldn't be possible or practical. Random screening would surffice. It's deterrent we need, not ineffectual measures that don't go far enough. 

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14 minutes ago, Halibut said:

What does?

Carrying out intimate examinations and prosecuting the the patents and custodians of FGM victims. 

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