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Why do we need a god?

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Look at who started the thread...and don't forget you started asking questions about it. :roll:

 

Well, i didn't start as the thread was going long before i joined in.

 

And i'm not really familiar with the person who started the thread, so i can't comment on their agenda.

 

My own opinion is simply that the world would be better without religion, and that we are nothing more than a body with a mind - no spirits, souls or any other voodoo. We are animals - no better, often worse, than the other creatures on this planet. There is no evidence that there is anything after this life and, until i see evidence, nothing will change my mind.

 

Some people need a crutch? That's fine, but i see it as people fooling themselves due to the human need for selfishness. And i include myself in that.

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Well, i didn't start as the thread was going long before i joined in.

 

And i'm not really familiar with the person who started the thread, so i can't comment on their agenda.

 

My own opinion is simply that the world would be better without religion, and that we are nothing more than a body with a mind - no spirits, souls or any other voodoo. We are animals - no better, often worse, than the other creatures on this planet. There is no evidence that there is anything after this life and, until i see evidence, nothing will change my mind.

 

Some people need a crutch? That's fine, but i see it as people fooling themselves due to the human need for selfishness. And i include myself in that.

 

Then why talk about suffering and all that- if you are (as many other atheists claim) nothing more than 'matter', then why does it MATTER what happens to others or what is happening around the world (as you quoted on the other page).

 

As for being same as all the other creatures on this planet, are you sure?? Think about that one...while I go chat about quantum mechanics with my cat.

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Then why talk about suffering and all that- if you are (as many other atheists claim) nothing more than 'matter', then why does it MATTER what happens to others or what is happening around the world (as you quoted on the other page).

I would say it matters because of this...

My own opinion is simply that the world would be better without religion, and that we are nothing more than a body with a mind

As for being same as all the other creatures on this planet, are you sure?? Think about that one...while I go chat about quantum mechanics with my cat.

It was pretty obvious from the context that Leviathan meant we are made from the same materials, not that we have the same behavioural characteristics or abilities.

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I would say it matters because of this...

 

 

It was pretty obvious from the context that Leviathan meant we are made from the same materials, not that we have the same behavioural characteristics or abilities.

 

No. Suffering is an occurrant theme on here or similar theads- and I do find it odd that this is used so often, when under atheism, we are nothing but by products.

 

The quote made about animals by Levethian, sounds pretty clear- and again, if you take Darwinian evolution at its source, that is what you are.

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No. Suffering is an occurrant theme on here or similar theads- and I do find it odd that this is used so often, when under atheism, we are nothing but by products.

 

The quote made about animals by Levethian, sounds pretty clear- and again, if you take Darwinian evolution at its source, that is what you are.

 

Well as there's no evidence to suggest we're anything other than the result of evolution, how do you think humans have developed empathy for suffering?

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No. Suffering is an occurrant theme on here or similar theads- and I do find it odd that this is used so often, when under atheism, we are nothing but by products.

 

The quote made about animals by Levethian, sounds pretty clear- and again, if you take Darwinian evolution at its source, that is what you are.

 

A couple of things:

 

We are animals. There are 2 kingdoms - the animal and the plant... I know which part I'm in. Explain to me how we are different to the other animals - we have ways to communicate; he have instinct and desire; as with other mammals, we breath oxygen; many animals have shown a level of reasoning and understanding of things that were once thought only human and they care. They show aggression and can be violent, but they have also shown an understanding of hierarchy and that social status and lineage affects your place in the group.

 

Secondly, and linked to the above - animals don't appear to kill for anything other than food or territory/survival of the group, except in extremely rare cases, but there's always an exception to the rule.

 

Without religion, would humans still portray similar characteristics? Possibly. But, maybe it would cut down on the amount of killing in the name of God which, I reckon, would cut down on the amount of lost lives. As far as I'm aware, murder has never been declared in the name of atheism. Would there still be droughts and people dying in Africa without religion? Quite possibly... or people could stop praying to an imaginary being and use that time to actually help themselves.

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No. Suffering is an occurrant theme on here or similar theads- and I do find it odd that this is used so often, when under atheism, we are nothing but by products.

I've never seen any atheists claim that we're nothing but a byproduct of suffering. Are you sure you've phrased that correctly?

 

The quote made about animals by Levethian, sounds pretty clear- and again, if you take Darwinian evolution at its source, that is what you are.

So you're saying that Leviathan and Darwin both think humans and other animals are all exactly the same, including behaviour, physical and mental abilities, physiology, hair colour, etc?

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I've never seen any atheists claim that we're nothing but a byproduct of suffering. Are you sure you've phrased that correctly?

 

 

So you're saying that Leviathan and Darwin both think humans and other animals are all exactly the same, including behaviour, physical and mental abilities, physiology, hair colour, etc?

 

No, I stated that under atheism, if you hold the view that humans are nothing but a by product of a lengthy evolution chain, that there is nothing else etc- then you cannot hold any value.

 

I am not denying evolution.

 

---------- Post added 23-02-2018 at 14:20 ----------

 

Well as there's no evidence to suggest we're anything other than the result of evolution, how do you think humans have developed empathy for suffering?

 

That is the point I was refering to- how do you explain that under evolution, as evolution is nothing but surviving.

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how do you explain that under evolution, as evolution is nothing but surviving.

 

In many cases empathy and cooperation are methods of survival.

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A couple of things:

 

We are animals. There are 2 kingdoms - the animal and the plant... I know which part I'm in. Explain to me how we are different to the other animals - we have ways to communicate; he have instinct and desire; as with other mammals, we breath oxygen; many animals have shown a level of reasoning and understanding of things that were once thought only human and they care. They show aggression and can be violent, but they have also shown an understanding of hierarchy and that social status and lineage affects your place in the group.

 

Secondly, and linked to the above - animals don't appear to kill for anything other than food or territory/survival of the group, except in extremely rare cases, but there's always an exception to the rule.

 

Without religion, would humans still portray similar characteristics? Possibly. But, maybe it would cut down on the amount of killing in the name of God which, I reckon, would cut down on the amount of lost lives. As far as I'm aware, murder has never been declared in the name of atheism. Would there still be droughts and people dying in Africa without religion? Quite possibly... or people could stop praying to an imaginary being and use that time to actually help themselves.

 

Quite a lot there to digest- but again, if you look at Dawinian evolution at its core, it is nothing more than survival of the fittest. It has nothing to do with values, feelings, knowing right or wrong.

 

But what I was pointing out, was that WE are superior when you compare us to any other species.

 

There is no need for evolution to result in abilities that allow us to understand the laws of physics or engage in mathematics.

 

It just does not make sense that we should end up with minds that have the ability to understand (e..g the universe).

 

Cockroaches and beetles survive extremely well, and have done so for millions of years, yet you don't see them discussing physics or anything else, over a cup of coffee.

 

---------- Post added 23-02-2018 at 14:52 ----------

 

In many cases empathy and cooperation are methods of survival.

 

They're not from what is being discussed.

 

These are traits we can have and do- but evolution via natural selection, has no say in this.

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I can't explain it, I'm not an evolutionary biologist.

 

However, This may help you

 

https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/the_evolution_of_empathy

 

I have read plenty on this before Snaily Boy- bottom line is, there is no answer for our ability to reason/make decisions, show empathy etc under an atheistic world view.

 

Even atheists admit this- people like Alex Rosenberg, Dawkins- in fact under their MOVING NATURALISM FORWARD- discussing issues surrounding naturalism, these were some of the issues raised.

 

In fact before you even go anywhere- you cannot even account for your ability to reason under a naturalism/atheistic world view.

 

Put simply, you cannot even trust your mind.

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