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Why do we need a god?

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And that book with all the fables is the book you put your hand on in court and swear to tell the truth.:huh:

 

Not if you want to affirm.

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If God is good, why does it allow bad things to happen?

 

If God is not able to stop the bad things, what's the point in there being a God?

 

If God allows the bad things to happen as a test of faith and loyalty, how can it be classed as loving when it treats it's followers like lab rats? Why would you want to be part of something like that?

 

If God has a divine plan, there's no point in praying. It's going to do what it wants anyway and you think you're important enough for it to change it's plans just for you?

 

If there is no divine plan and our fate is up to us, again, what is the point in being a God if you're not going to affect anything?

 

Looking at what's happened and is happening in the world, God either doesn't know or doesn't care. Either way, it shows that it is useless and there is no need for it to exist... which it doesn't because it's a man-made theory used to control primitive people.

 

We have everything we need here on earth. A lot of the bad things that happen, eg wars, are down to people; people have freedom of choice. We mess things up, we have to fix them.

 

We don't know what disasters he might have saved us from because he stopped them from happening.

 

I believe we are supposed to use our time here on earth to learn something that we need to know. We are given the opportunity to learn it - often through difficult situations.

 

Prayers are answered, not necessarily by giving us what we want, but by giving us what we need which isn't the same thing.

 

Finally, 'God works in mysterious ways.' We don't know the plan and don't see the full picture, just our bit of it.

 

I don't know if God exists, (I happen to think it's more a personification of a 'divine' energy,) but I do think we need something to hold onto in times of fear and peril. That alone, real or not, helps people.

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Religion and spirituality are two separate things.

 

Spirituality comes from within and doesn't need churches or temples. Put in its simplist terms (and it isn't actually simple at all,) it's an innate awareness of something greater and more profound than oneself or that which we can see and touch. .

 

Haven't you just defined religion?

"The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods"

 

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/religion

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We have everything we need here on earth. A lot of the bad things that happen, eg wars, are down to people; people have freedom of choice. We mess things up, we have to fix them.

 

We don't know what disasters he might have saved us from because he stopped them from happening.

 

I believe we are supposed to use our time here on earth to learn something that we need to know. We are given the opportunity to learn it - often through difficult situations.

 

Prayers are answered, not necessarily by giving us what we want, but by giving us what we need which isn't the same thing.

 

Finally, 'God works in mysterious ways.' We don't know the plan and don't see the full picture, just our bit of it.

 

I don't know if God exists, (I happen to think it's more a personification of a 'divine' energy,) but I do think we need something to hold onto in times of fear and peril. That alone, real or not, helps people.

 

Ah the old 'god works in mysterious ways' cop out.

 

That phrase is only used because it's a way of avoiding any 'difficult' question, such as the ones that leviathan13 posted.

 

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

- Epicurus

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Aye, why would a just God let you sit for weeks beside a loved ones bed while cancer slowly consumed them. Why if he/she is all powerful, just press the button and take the terminaly ill to eternal rest, does God get a kick out of the suffering.

 

Angel1

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Haven't you just defined religion?

"The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods"

 

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/religion

 

I think I get what she means; and to my mind 'spiritual' does not at all require a belief in, or conception of 'god' (or any belief of any description at all; of even the label 'spiritual'). It's purely an awareness / experiential thing.

 

You could apply the logical rational thinking process to the experience (or to someone else's relating of their experience to you); if you want to go down that particular rabbit hole. If you want to be fair to yourself however, you may wish to ask if the nature of your rational thinking process is up to the job of grasping the subject matter at hand.

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Ah the old 'god works in mysterious ways' cop out.

 

That phrase is only used because it's a way of avoiding any 'difficult' question, such as the ones that leviathan13 posted.

 

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.

Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?

Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

- Epicurus

 

That's fine. I don't have all the answers either, it would be incredibly arrogant to think that I, or anyone else, does. I was merely offering up 'possibilities' that I'm not even sure of myself, but I have thought about it.

 

However I still think that most of the evils of this world are the work of man, not 'God.' I do take the point about illness. I have a serious illness in my own family which does makes me wonder (a lot.)

 

All I can say is that man is slowly conquering illnesses that would have led to horrible deaths much earlier. By using his brain, working together and meeting the challenges with perserverance and determination, he is making progress.

 

But I don't see death as the end.

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We don't know what disasters he might have saved us from because he stopped them from happening.

 

Which begs the question : "Why create potential disasters only to intervene in your own creation?"

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but I do think we need something to hold onto in times of fear and peril. That alone, real or not, helps people.

 

It depends on what you mean by people.

 

Yes, believing in a divine construction or an afterlife may help someone in the short term but in the long term it undermines any attempts to make real change for the better. All religions have propped up the status quo and as such have a negative effect on the well being of most of the human race in the long term.

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That's fine. I don't have all the answers either, it would be incredibly arrogant to think that I, or anyone else, does. I was merely offering up 'possibilities' that I'm not even sure of myself, but I have thought about it.

 

However I still think that most of the evils of this world are the work of man, not 'God.' I do take the point about illness. I have a serious illness in my own family which does makes me wonder (a lot.)

 

All I can say is that man is slowly conquering illnesses that would have led to horrible deaths much earlier. By using his brain, working together and meeting the challenges with perserverance and determination, he is making progress.

 

But I don't see death as the end.

 

Science doesn't have all of the answers either, but the scientists don't just simply say 'i dunno... a wizard probably did it'. It's great if you've found something to cling on to that helps you through, but that's something that's been taught and your beliefs are product of your environment and also fear that this is all we are.

 

And the 'he works in mysterious ways' is all well and good... if you're a person born fit and healthy in a first world country. I'm sure the children dying in Africa will sleep well knowing that they are suffering do you can have a cushy life.

 

Finally, by your reckoning, those African kids will probably have a better afterlife than you because they've suffered the most and been put through more trials than you. So if it's a test to see who is the most loyal and this affects your life in the beyond, then the majority of those in the first world are screwed. But, God doesn't work like that because it doesn't fit with what you want to happen in life and after.

 

The religious and spirtual make it up as they go along, which is fine, just stop trying to infect the rest of us with your folly.

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Science doesn't have all of the answers either, but the scientists don't just simply say 'i dunno... a wizard probably did it'. It's great if you've found something to cling on to that helps you through, but that's something that's been taught and your beliefs are product of your environment and also fear that this is all we are.

 

And the 'he works in mysterious ways' is all well and good... if you're a person born fit and healthy in a first world country. I'm sure the children dying in Africa will sleep well knowing that they are suffering do you can have a cushy life.

 

Finally, by your reckoning, those African kids will probably have a better afterlife than you because they've suffered the most and been put through more trials than you. So if it's a test to see who is the most loyal and this affects your life in the beyond, then the majority of those in the first world are screwed. But, God doesn't work like that because it doesn't fit with what you want to happen in life and after.

 

The religious and spirtual make it up as they go along, which is fine, just stop trying to infect the rest of us with your folly.

 

Err... I was just joining in a discussion and offerring my point of view, I wasn't out to 'infect' anyone

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The religious and spirtual make it up as they go along, which is fine, just stop trying to infect the rest of us with your folly.

 

Look at who started the thread...and don't forget you started asking questions about it. :roll:

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