What is equality to you?

[Cyclone 10]

11 hours ago, woodview said:

Prejudice is wrong in any form. Taking 'positive action' as described will disadvantage somebody, by definition.

Saying 'well you whites or you blokes are generally at an advantage, so suck it up' isn't a great selling point.

As I mentioned earlier, it's easy for people from a privelaged background to say.

Two equal candidates.  You have to decide between them somehow and your organisation through unconscious bias has an under representation of a particular demographic.

Should you flip a coin?  Or decide to hire the person from the previously under represented group?  Flipping a coin will disadvantage someone, because only 1 of the 2 is getting the job.

11 hours ago, woodview said:

I can accept that. There are a few examples where it could be relevant.

Policing is an example where it could be relevant, which happened to be the case that kicked this discussion back off.

Both male/female and ethnicity can all have a big impact on how the community perceives the police and community cooperation is key to policing in the UK.

11 hours ago, WiseOwl182 said:

Humour me. Two job candidates, both ethnic minority candidates, one chosen over the other due to a "positive action". What criteria did the employer use?

How can someone answer a question about a hypothetical situation you've made up?  You tell us what criteria they use in your made up situation...  Or tell us what you think they should use.

For positive action to apply remember that they are equally qualified in every other way.

[woodview 10]

6 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

Two equal candidates.  You have to decide between them somehow and your organisation through unconscious bias has an under representation of a particular demographic.

Should you flip a coin?  Or decide to hire the person from the previously under represented group?  Flipping a coin will disadvantage someone, because only 1 of the 2 is getting the job.

Policing is an example where it could be relevant, which happened to be the case that kicked this discussion back off.

Both male/female and ethnicity can all have a big impact on how the community perceives the police and community cooperation is key to policing in the UK.

I simply don't believe you can have two equal candidates in the Majority of circumstances. It would be so rare as to make it a trivial issue.

Policing is an example of where it shouldn't happen. It is massively important it is done by merit alone. I can agree with having a targeted advertising campaign  for under represented groups for applications for new recruits.  After that, it should be merit only.

[Cyclone 10]

Your lack of belief isn't important.  The fact is that positive action ONLY applies when candidates are otherwise equal.

[woodview 10]

1 minute ago, Cyclone said:

Your lack of belief isn't important.  The fact is that positive action ONLY applies when candidates are otherwise equal.

Well, it is important when talking about anything. You have to believe a scenario is realistic to take action on it.

Instances where it's more believablenis lower skilled work, that might not need any qualification, or limited ones. If Asda said they were doing it for checkout operators, so then applied it, how would work out?

How would you feel if you were leapfrogged by someone to hit a quota of under represented groups? It is a recipe for bad feeling.

[Cyclone 10]

Ironically you worry about white people feeling aggrieved when positive action only exists because non-white people are disadvantaged by conscious and unconscious bias, resulting in them being leapfrogged routinely and systematically.

In effect you want to defend the status quo whereby that continues.

[woodview 10]

5 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

Ironically you worry about white people feeling aggrieved when positive action only exists because non-white people are disadvantaged by conscious and unconscious bias, resulting in them being leapfrogged routinely and systematically.

In effect you want to defend the status quo whereby that continues.

No I don't. I want work forces to be made up of people who are there purely by merit. Hopefully the mix of employees will reflect that of the general population. 

The mix of people I personally employ in my business actually over-represents 'minorities' in my industry, selected on merit only.

Ironically your zeal for social engineering will have the effect of causing  way more tension than exists now.

[Cyclone 10]

I don't have any zeal, I do recognise that there is a problem though.

I'm not sure if you don't think there is a problem, or if you merely don't want to do anything about the problem.

[woodview 10]

30 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

I don't have any zeal, I do recognise that there is a problem though.

I'm not sure if you don't think there is a problem, or if you merely don't want to do anything about the problem.

There's a problem. This isn't the solution.

[danot 10]

 Positive action could be applied to almost anything in principle then. If white people were failed on their driving tests  purely to increase the pass rate of disadvantaged none whites, would that be fair game?

[Cyclone 10]

9 minutes ago, danot said:

 Positive action could be applied to almost anything in principle then. If white people were failed on their driving tests  purely to increase the pass rate of disadvantaged none whites, would that be fair game?

Explain how that would work then, given the explanation of what positive action is that you've been given multiple times.

[leviathan13 350]

6 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

 

Yet more evidence of white privilege!

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47468011

 

There's even inequality and racism within the black community!

Edited March 8, 2019 by leviathan13

[neworderishere 0]

4 minutes ago, leviathan13 said:

Yet more evidence of white privilege!

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47468011

 

There's even inequality and racism within the black community!

yes soon we will have to have a colour chart to see which shade is the most unequally treated!?? do dulux do one!