Council tree felling...

[Guest makapaka]

I never said he was lying. I personally believe he has been badly misinformed about various aspects of the protests, possibly because, as he admitted in the interview, he's only been listening to SCC/Amey.

 

It is indeed likely that there are ongoing investigations into alleged violence by protesters, and that he anticipates further arrests. It doesn't necessarily follow that the arrests will take place, or that the CPS will prosecute.

 

When he said that a "number of arrests have been made they've been made for assault", he failed to mention (possibly because he wasn't aware) that all the arrests for assault so far have resulted in no charges. It is of course possible that there are recent arrests that I am not aware of.

 

But overall the effect of the interview was for him to project a highly misleading impression of the situation on the ground. In the last day, several people, including Councillor Teal, have written to him to try and correct his misapprehensions.

 

I think he is aware and not misinformed - it’s a bit patronising to suggest otherwise.

[dave_the_m 61]

I think he is aware and not misinformed - it’s a bit patronising to suggest otherwise.

 

Well, he said things that were misleading. Either he was misinformed, or he attempted to mislead the public. I took the charitable interpretation.

[ENG601PM 10]

I think he is aware and not misinformed - it’s a bit patronising to suggest otherwise.

 

It would be very patronising to think he's not informed. What his information and orders are is the subject of conjecture, which isn't a happy place for the police to be, especially working coppers of all ranks who are trying to do a decent job under pressure.

 

On the subject of pressure, on these occasions we see what a bad idea it is to politicise the police because who can trust their independence in a situation like this? The current elected Police and Crime Commissioner is Alan Billings a former Sheffield Labour Councillor. The optics are awful, the police look to be (and are of course) politically controlled.

 

Am I right in thinking that so far there's not been a successful prosecution of a tree protester? Thank goodness that our judiciary is independent so we should await a prosecution before deciding just who did what to whom in criminal matters.

[dave_the_m 61]

Am I right in thinking that so far there's not been a successful prosecution of a tree protester? Thank goodness that our judiciary is independent so we should await a prosecution before deciding just who did what to whom in criminal matters.

Apart from private prosecutions brought by SCC for contempt of court for remaining in a safety zone, no protester has been prosecuted for any reason related to the protests, as far as I'm aware - i.e. all incidents of arrest have been followed either by immediate de-arrest, or the CPS deciding not to charge, or the CPS later dropping the case.

 

Alison Teal has recently posted that an individual was arrested last Monday at their home in relation to the alleged broken wrist incident from a month ago.

 

---------- Post added 25-02-2018 at 12:17 ----------

 

There was an interesting post on the STAG facebook page this morning by Chris Rust, co-chair of STAG. He and some others spent a couple of hours liaising with three liaison officer types to discuss how the police intended to police the protests starting from monday. I reproduce it in full here:

 

The conversation with SYP officers on Thursday was fundamentally different from the interview with ACC Hartley and the SYP press release.

 

The officers said they felt the situation on MPR had got out of control, that people were injured on both sides and probably people on both sides had broken the law. They also acknowledged that they had not been pro-active enough in observing the activity and they needed to do more about that. That sounded very reasonable and accurate.

 

ACC Hartley's interview and the press release were deliberate attempts to demonise the campaigners. He was definitely taking sides with Amey and SCC and seems to have forgotten that SYP officers believed they had been 'thrown under a bus' by SCC on Rustlings Rd and should be cautious about any claims made by the Council.

 

It's dangerous when police are over-confident in their assessment of the situation based on partial information. SYP's own history shows them that whether it's decisions made on the day at Hillsborough or charging off to Surrey to arrest Cliff Richards (both on the Police Commissioner's list of disasters to learn from). And there is NO need to demonise the people you are dealing with, ever.

 

Hartley's confidence in the SIA workers is plain foolish, it's obvious that in any group, however well trained, there is potential for people to do stupid things, especially when the situation gets out of control as it did on MPR last month.

[bazjea 10]

I hope that the dislike of the council extends beyond the trees into other groups really- things like the library debacle, the refusal to disclose details of PFI agreements, and other issues I'm probably not even aware of all reach different people, who may feel moved to vote differently. Here's hoping anyway- a change is due, and would be a good thing in terms of reminding people that they are accountable, and that they're not on some lifetime golden ticket. Without change it's inevitable that elected powers become complacent, arrogant or even outright corrupt over time.

 

I honestly can't believe the tree felling programme is continuing, despite everything. The absolute logical thing to do at this juncture would be to discuss and to have an independent survey conducted, rather than continue? I imagine the police aren't exactly thrilled at the prospect of getting involved in this nonsense.

 

 

There are postings one after the other on this forum about corruption Tree felling for and against. Road surface renewal.

PFI contact details. Get rid of the council etc.

 

As far as can see no one, of any political persuasion, has suggestions how any future council, will deal with these problems.

Not much use in voting, if we don't know what will be proposed.

[cgksheff 44]

It is important to under just how much of the power is wielded by council officers and how they can influence any decision made by the elected councillors.

[Guest makapaka]

It is important to under just how much of the power is wielded by council officers and how they can influence any decision made by the elected councillors.

 

Can you help us to understand that then - with some examples.

[cgksheff 44]

Can you help us to understand that then - with some examples.

 

Who do you think actually drew up the PFI contract?

[Longcol 604]

Who do you think actually drew up the PFI contract?

 

Based on a standard template provided by central government - it's been the case for years.

 

Presumably also signed up for by Central Government.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/funding-boost-for-sheffield-s-roads

[Guest makapaka]

Who do you think actually drew up the PFI contract?

 

Have you got any examples?

 

---------- Post added 25-02-2018 at 19:58 ----------

 

Based on a standard template provided by central government - it's been the case for years.

 

Presumably also signed up for by Central Government.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/funding-boost-for-sheffield-s-roads

 

Conservative and Lib Dem government.

[hackey lad 3,979]

I think he is aware and not misinformed - it’s a bit patronising to suggest otherwise.

 

Sounds like the only thing he is aware about, is the councils/ameys side of things

[onewheeldave 22]

Good article in the Guardian about the tree fellings-

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/feb/25/for-the-chop-the-battle-to-save-sheffields-trees?CMP=share_btn_fb

 

"For the chop: the battle to save Sheffield’s trees"