Council tree felling...

[Guest makapaka]

Except for the fact that we've previously discussed how the survey was delivered in plain brown envelopes looking like junk mail.

 

It's amazing how many surveys the council does actually and just how badly they manage to advertise them.

They then take action based on <100 responses. We have no idea where those responses come from, but it would be extremely easy for 50 council members themselves to fill in the survey, fail to advertise it and then claim it as the basis for 'democratic action'.

 

Talk about clutching at straws - so loads of people got a letter through their door and because it didn't advertise it's contents on the outside 80% of the Sheldon Road residents didn't even open it and just tossed it aside.

 

But amazingly - of the remaining 20% that didn't just throw an unopened enevelope in the bin - 82% wanted to keep the trees.

 

Or alternatively the majority of people did open the letter (when was the last time you threw a brown envelope letter in the bin without opening it by the way?) and around 20% were against the tree felling so responded. The other 80% weren't bothered enought to reply.

 

I know which is more plausible.

[Mr Bloke 1,445]

Talk about clutching at straws - so loads of people got a letter through their door and because it didn't advertise it's contents on the outside 80% of the Sheldon Road residents didn't even open it and just tossed it aside.

 

But amazingly - of the remaining 20% that didn't just throw an unopened enevelope in the bin - 82% wanted to keep the trees.

 

Or alternatively the majority of people did open the letter (when was the last time you threw a brown envelope letter in the bin without opening it by the way?) and around 20% were against the tree felling so responded. The other 80% weren't bothered enought to reply.

 

I know which is more plausible.

Hmmm...

 

... OK, here's a bit of a curved ball for you.

 

Having had a quick word with Mr Google, I have just learned that there are a lot of flats/bedsits for rent in the Sheldon Road area.

 

Now, if these properties are occupied on short-term leases (students and the like), then it's no surprise that they couldn't be bothered to respond to a survey that wasn't addressed to them as they clearly have no long-term interest in what happens to the area.

 

So, without knowing the exact percentage of long-term/owner-occupiers living on Sheldon Road, any interpretation of the survey results is just speculation and actually meaningless (unless the results happen to agree with your way of thinking).

[Guest makapaka]

Hmmm...

 

... OK, here's a bit of a curved ball for you.

 

Having had a quick word with Mr Google, I have just learned that there are a lot of flats/bedsits for rent in the Sheldon Road area.

 

Now, if these properties are occupied on short-term leases (students and the like), then it's no surprise that they couldn't be bothered to respond to a survey that wasn't addressed to them as they clearly have no long-term interest in what happens to the area.

 

So, without knowing the exact percentage of long-term/owner-occupiers living on Sheldon Road, any interpretation of the survey results is just speculation and actually meaningless (unless the results happen to agree with your way of thinking).

 

I agree it’s just speculation and can’t be confirmed - but it’s more of an indicator of disinterest than it is of support as suggested elsewhere.

[Cyclone 10]

Can't remember the last time I had junk mail in a plain brown envelope - junk mail envelopes are always covered in ads, logos etc

 

Apart from this survey you probably can't remember you got something from the council in a plain envelope either...

 

---------- Post added 17-09-2018 at 17:36 ----------

 

Talk about clutching at straws - so loads of people got a letter through their door and because it didn't advertise it's contents on the outside 80% of the Sheldon Road residents didn't even open it and just tossed it aside.

 

But amazingly - of the remaining 20% that didn't just throw an unopened enevelope in the bin - 82% wanted to keep the trees.

 

Or alternatively the majority of people did open the letter (when was the last time you threw a brown envelope letter in the bin without opening it by the way?) and around 20% were against the tree felling so responded. The other 80% weren't bothered enought to reply.

 

I know which is more plausible.

 

Strawman, I didn't claim that they'd all tossed it unopened.

 

---------- Post added 17-09-2018 at 17:38 ----------

 

I agree it’s just speculation and can’t be confirmed - but it’s more of an indicator of disinterest than it is of support as suggested elsewhere.

 

We can of course look at the results that were gathered. Very few in favour, most in opposition.

So given that disinterest is neither, what we have is more against the trees being removed than in favour.

 

Which I believe is contrary to that the (now silent) earlier poster was claiming.

[Longcol 597]

Apart from this survey you probably can't remember you got something from the council in a plain envelope either...

 

 

But why would I think it was junk mail? They're always plastered with ads trying to flog me credit cards, insurance etc.

 

Plain brown tends to be kind of "official" eg from the GP or dentist.

[Guest makapaka]

Apart from this survey you probably can't remember you got something from the council in a plain envelope either...

 

---------- Post added 17-09-2018 at 17:36 ----------

 

 

Strawman, I didn't claim that they'd all tossed it unopened.

 

---------- Post added 17-09-2018 at 17:38 ----------

 

 

We can of course look at the results that were gathered. Very few in favour, most in opposition.

So given that disinterest is neither, what we have is more against the trees being removed than in favour.

 

Which I believe is contrary to that the (now silent) earlier poster was claiming.

 

God - the old strawman thing again - it's not a strawman. I'm not arguing the point as to where they put the letter - it doesn't matter. The point you made was that the letter was presented in a fashion that you suggested people didn't read it. Whether they put it in a bin or the bath or down their trousers doesn't really matter. Your argument must be that they didn't read it otherwise the fact that the letter wasn't marked is irrelevant....

 

As I said earlier - it isn't conclusive - but;

 

144 households were asked.

116 households didn't reply.

23 replied and objected.

5 replied and didn't object.

 

Therefore

 

3% Replied and didn't object

16% Objected

81% Didn't respond.

 

Imagine a local election where 81% didn't turn out - everyone would rightly be talking about voter apathy - not a silent majority.

[Cyclone 10]

I suggested that some people might not have read it, I expect that's true.

You then argued against me saying that they all wouldn't have read it, something I didn't say.

 

You can't have it both ways, of the people who care about the issue enough to respond, the majority are against it. Quite a lot don't care, but that isn't support.

[hackey lad 3,949]

But why would I think it was junk mail? They're always plastered with ads trying to flog me credit cards, insurance etc.

 

Plain brown tends to be kind of "official" eg from the GP or dentist.

 

From GP or Dentist would be addressed to someone at the address

[Guest makapaka]

I suggested that some people might not have read it, I expect that's true.

You then argued against me saying that they all wouldn't have read it, something I didn't say.

 

You can't have it both ways, of the people who care about the issue enough to respond, the majority are against it. Quite a lot don't care, but that isn't support.

 

I’ve never said it was support - I said it was apathy. They’re not bothered.

 

You equally can’t have it both ways - you can’t raise the issue that the envelope was not clear as to what it contained as a factor and then back track as to what extent it impacted the vote.

[Mr Bloke 1,445]

God - the old strawman thing again - it's not a strawman. I'm not arguing the point as to where they put the letter - it doesn't matter. The point you made was that the letter was presented in a fashion that you suggested people didn't read it. Whether they put it in a bin or the bath or down their trousers doesn't really matter. Your argument must be that they didn't read it otherwise the fact that the letter wasn't marked is irrelevant....

 

As I said earlier - it isn't conclusive - but;

 

144 households were asked.

116 households didn't reply.

23 replied and objected.

5 replied and didn't object.

 

Therefore

 

3% Replied and didn't object

16% Objected

81% Didn't respond.

 

Imagine a local election where 81% didn't turn out - everyone would rightly be talking about voter apathy - not a silent majority.

Hmmm...

 

... that's interesting... so where did you get all these numbers from?

 

Surely the council would not disclose such sensitive information to just anyone?

 

If you know so much detail about how people voted maybe you can also tell us how many properties are occupied on short-term leases?

[Guest makapaka]

Hmmm...

 

... that's interesting... so where did you get all these numbers from?

 

Surely the council would not disclose such sensitive information to just anyone?

 

If you know so much detail about how people voted maybe you can also tell us how many properties are occupied on short-term leases?

 

I got all the information from the link posted by c00kie further up the thread so the tinfoil hat can go back in the cupboard.

 

I don’t know how many properties are on short term lease either - but that would only reinforce the apathy argument rather than contest it anyway.

[Longcol 597]

From GP or Dentist would be addressed to someone at the address

 

And presumably the council had to use "The Occupier" due to the constraints of the Data Protection Act.