The EU and the Irish Border.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

Irish Ferries and Stena are currently increasing their capacity on their ferries from Rosslare and Dublin to France. Brittany ferries are expected to follow suite with thei Cork service.

Fishguard, Holyhead, Liverpool and Heysham ports are bracing themselves for a loss of trade.

[I1L2T3 10]

Irish Ferries and Stena are currently increasing their capacity on their ferries from Rosslare and Dublin to France. Brittany ferries are expected to follow suite with thei Cork service.

Fishguard, Holyhead, Liverpool and Heysham ports are bracing themselves for a loss of trade.

 

The EU has invested heavily on overland transit corridors - the programme is called TEN-T.

 

The corridor from Ireland goes from Dublin port through the UK and to the EU from Dover, Felixstowe and Southampton ports. Capacity planning is underway like you say to bypass the UK and use Dublin and Cork. Many Irish goods are time-sensitive and companies don’t want to be caught in bottlenecks at our ports.

 

It’s a painful switch over requiring big investment but that will create jobs in Ireland and in the European ports. Our ports will be quieter and that means job losses.

[Ridgewalk 96]

tell us more

 

 

India tells UK govt to accept high immigration or no trade deal after Brexit

 

Business Insider Magazine

 

Lord Bilimoria Co founder of Cobra Beer says that Indian workers must be alllowed to move to Britain or India will not agree trade deal with UK after Brexit

Edited November 28, 2017 by Ridgewalk
Add infi

[I1L2T3 10]

India tells UK govt to accept high immigration or no trade deal after Brexit

 

Business Insider Magazine

 

Lord Bilimoria Co founder of Cobra Beer says that Indian workers must be alllowed to move to Britain or India will not agree trade deal with UK after Brexit

 

Said the same things on here many times before and after the referendum

 

The cost of a trade deal with India is a huge surge in long-term visa applications being granted.

 

The current brake on this is because of the EU, where any meaningful increased level of permanent or semi-permanent immigration is part of a trade deal with the whole bloc. If the other 27 don’t want it then it doesn’t happen.

 

As a single nation negotiating alone we’re going to be powerless. A million Poles? Same again from India? if Fox gets his way it’s a yes.

[Ridgewalk 96]

Irish history? You mean the rebels who started a civil war halfway through WW1?

 

 

I think the days of Empire, Colonel Blimp and Gunboat diplomacy are long over.

 

You carry on reading your Daily Mail, Express, Torygraph, whatever.

 

---------- Post added 29-11-2017 at 09:24 ----------

 

Said the same things on here many times before and after the referendum

 

The cost of a trade deal with India is a huge surge in long-term visa applications being granted.

 

The current brake on this is because of the EU, where any meaningful increased level of permanent or semi-permanent immigration is part of a trade deal with the whole bloc. If the other 27 don’t want it then it doesn’t happen.

 

As a single nation negotiating alone we’re going to be powerless. A million Poles? Same again from India? if Fox gets his way it’s a yes.

 

 

Interesting how the queen of diplomacy Priti Patel is quick to tell the EU to “ sod off”, she presumably has no familial or cultural links with Europe.

[L00b 441]

Said the same things on here many times before and after the referendum

 

The cost of a trade deal with India is a huge surge in long-term visa applications being granted.

 

The current brake on this is because of the EU, where any meaningful increased level of permanent or semi-permanent immigration is part of a trade deal with the whole bloc. If the other 27 don’t want it then it doesn’t happen.

 

As a single nation negotiating alone we’re going to be powerless. A million Poles? Same again from India? if Fox gets his way it’s a yes.

No need to wait to be coerced by parties to an FTA negotiation, the ongoing management of the referendum result is causing that surge already, just fine.

 

Illustration: (and it is not a little ironic here, that the message of funding the NHS properly that was used so effectively during the campaign, may just be the straw that breaks the camel's back )

<...> This worries Dr. Auzinger, who has to hire 407 nurses and doctors for the hospital’s new intensive care wing. Last month, not a single European applied for an advertised position as a senior consultant. “Before, at least a third of applicants were European,” he said.

 

Dr. Auzinger is happy to hire qualified Britons. “But there are not enough doctors and nurses in this country,” he said. “The numbers being trained do not cover the needs.”

 

In March, the government announced a plan to hurriedly train more British nurses. Yet in September, enrollment at nursing schools dropped, because the government also cut grants to nursing students. That is one reason Peter Absalom, associate director for recruitment at King’s, is now trying to replace one immigrant group with another. “We are looking to the Philippines, Australia and India,” he said. Three major recruitment drives are planned over the next 12 months.

 

<...>

 

Every time Mr. Absalom hires someone from overseas he has to pay for their visas and a collection of other charges, which add up to more than £4,000 per person over three years. It can take a year before the nurses start work. Europeans could be hired with no visa costs and no extra paperwork. Over the last five years, nurses from Portugal, Spain, Ireland and other European Union countries have accounted for about a third of the total intake.

 

Now King’s has stopped its hiring campaigns in the European Union.

 

“What is particularly difficult is that we cannot give candidates any certainty on their future status,” Mr. Absalom said.

 

Where Brexit Hurts: The Nurses and Doctors Leaving London[/Quote]Not exactly a surprising development: it's not as if resident Indian lobby groups haven't been pushing hard for Brexit, nor as if e.g. one of Mr Boris Johnson's very good mates, Mr Prasenjit Kumar Singh, is an Indian gentleman who owns a string of UK private colleges and UK travel agencies which specialise in India-UK travels (can you connect the dots here, or do you need it spelling out really loud and clear?)

 

Brexit is effectively a giant exercise in replacing controllable (but uncontrolled in practice) EU migration with controllable (and barely controlled) non-EU migration, with vested interests making a tidy profit over the swapping process at the UK taxpayer's expense.

 

Those who voted for Brexit, most in need of its promises, are those who will not see any benefits for years on end. Just more wage erosion and still less public services, instead.

 

But well, by the looks of it they still want the £350m/week pup they've been sold, so that's that.

Edited November 29, 2017 by L00b

[Penistone999 10]

Lies, misinformation, xenophobia and ignorance caused brexit to happen.

 

Ah , the old race card . There is nothing racist about being against uncontrolled immigration.

[Geo-atkinson 10]

Back to the subject of Ireland.....

 

So the government are thinking, at least, of the possibility of special measures and trading arrangements so the north can keep it's open border with the south, and putting border checks on the UK mainland for all citizens from Ireland. You could have a system where frequent travellers between Ireland and Great Britain could have an electronic pass so they could go through border control in airports and ports unchecked. Will the DUP accept this? No way, no matter. Lets have a mini referendum of the people of Northern Ireland see how the land lies. If the Northern Irish people vote to accept this proposal the the DUP can get stuffed. That's democracy in action.

[L00b 441]

Back to the subject of Ireland.....

 

So the government are thinking, at least, of the possibility of special measures and trading arrangements so the north can keep it's open border with the south, and putting border checks on the UK mainland for all citizens from Ireland. You could have a system where frequent travellers between Ireland and Great Britain could have an electronic pass so they could go through border control in airports and ports unchecked. Will the DUP accept this? No way, no matter. Lets have a mini referendum of the people of Northern Ireland see how the land lies. If the Northern Irish people vote to accept this proposal the the DUP can get stuffed. That's democracy in action.

It's actually very simple, always has been, so long as you bear the WTO MFN rules in mind:

 

whatever controls the UK (NI) does on imported EU goods, the UK(NI) can do on goods imported from anywhere else;

 

whatever controls the UK (NI) does not on imported EU goods, the UK(NI) cannot do on goods imported from anywhere else.

 

Hence <whatever Westminster, MPs, the DUP (etc.) testiculate about>, if the UK leaves the NI border open as now, the UK would not be allowed to do any controls on any goods of any kind imported from anywhere in the world.

 

Now, spare an imaginary thought about Chinese imports without any checks on quality, standards compliance, content, etc. flowing into UK, and the screams that would invariably raise.

 

That is exactly why there will be a border in NI with controls, lest the EU gets the best trade deal in the word ("the EU gets unlimited access to the UK market without controls, but the EU keeps all its controls on its (RoI) side for UK goods").

 

Unless Theresa neutralises the dissenting DUP for making the NI a 'special zone' (as you suggest Geo-Atkinson, although the electronic wizardry thingymajjig is a non-starter).

 

But then, when you listen to Arlene, how is Theresa possibly going to achieve that, and keep her Parliamentary majority? With another bung for a few more £bn's worth of UK taxpayer's money? I can't see the DUP selling out.

 

Uh-oh: snookered

 

Saying all that though, the above is about goods, not people. But then, deciding not to police the NI border for immigration on the UK side, strikes me as running somewhat counter to the Brexiters' objective of "regaining control of immigration" (...not that I ever expected them to make much sense in the first place, mind you ).

Edited December 1, 2017 by L00b

[Annie Bynnol 612]

Back to the subject of Ireland.....

 

So the government are thinking, at least, of the possibility of special measures and trading arrangements so the north can keep it's open border with the south, and putting border checks on the UK mainland for all citizens from Ireland. You could have a system where frequent travellers between Ireland and Great Britain could have an electronic pass so they could go through border control in airports and ports unchecked. Will the DUP accept this? No way, no matter. Lets have a mini referendum of the people of Northern Ireland see how the land lies. If the Northern Irish people vote to accept this proposal the the DUP can get stuffed. That's democracy in action.

 

It is the very fact that our kind of democracy does not work in Northern Ireland that has been the route cause of the problems since 1922.

In our democracy the majority party(ies) have to consider and not ignore the minority and the minority accepting that a Government has a mandate to legislate. For decades this did not happen in NI until a new and unique form of democracy exist there now-except it doesn't and we have a crisis in the power sharing assembly.

Any referendum question which put NI in a different situation to GB within the UK would become a tribal Unionist/Nationalist issue, rather than a question about borders and customs.

 

It would be a clearer argument if you defined what you mean when you say "... all citizens from Ireland.", Is that NI or ROI or both?

There is already an electronic pass available to ROI passport holders can use "... so they could go through border control in airports and ports unchecked..." between all of the UK and ROI. There is no similar ID available in the UK as the Government cancelled them and their planned compulsory introduction in 2011.

[Geo-atkinson 10]

It is the very fact that our kind of democracy does not work in Northern Ireland that has been the route cause of the problems since 1922.

In our democracy the majority party(ies) have to consider and not ignore the minority and the minority accepting that a Government has a mandate to legislate. For decades this did not happen in NI until a new and unique form of democracy exist there now-except it doesn't and we have a crisis in the power sharing assembly.

Any referendum question which put NI in a different situation to GB within the UK would become a tribal Unionist/Nationalist issue, rather than a question about borders and customs.

 

It would be a clearer argument if you defined what you mean when you say "... all citizens from Ireland.", Is that NI or ROI or both?

There is already an electronic pass available to ROI passport holders can use "... so they could go through border control in airports and ports unchecked..." between all of the UK and ROI. There is no similar ID available in the UK as the Government cancelled them and their planned compulsory introduction in 2011.

 

Citizens of Ireland means both RI and NI hope that is clear.

 

What is clear is that doing nothing is not an option. The deadline approaches and if a few people from one part of the UK and their neighbours can't sort this out the EU won't give a monkeys. On deadline day the Replublic of Ireland will be ordered by the EU to close its border because that will be an outpost of the European Union with a non member country on its doorstep. Whatever conflict arises from that will be blamed on the Irish government and the government of the UK. The EU will only be interested in peace and security on it's side of the border. The European Union does not share the history that Britain and Ireland share the cross border scuffels will be seen as nothing more than annoying to Brussels...

 

---------- Post added 04-12-2017 at 15:37 ----------

 

Today sees the first signs that the UK government are prepared to consider the idea of a special deal for Northern Ireland so the border with the republic can remain open. This will be at the expense of Great Britain where there will have to be immigration checks and border controls at all GB ports and airports for citizens from the island of Ireland. The question now is how relaxed are the rules going to be regarding the customs union and free movement of goods, people and services in and out of the UK via Ireland. The way l see it is this, if all you need to shift stuff to the EU is a stamp with Northern Ireland on it, Northern Ireland wiil be the place to be after 2018.

[melthebell 862]

anyway, a breakthrough, another concession from the UK

 

In other words, the outlines of the deal that Theresa May is likely to accept today will say that Northern Ireland will continue with more or less the same rules and regulations as the South, implying that it could, in theory, have a special deal where it more or less stays in the EU customs union and the single market.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42221742

 

its gonna anger the DUP, also in the next phase its saying Spain could start harranging over Gibralter next